Gerry Scullion (68:03:19.67)
So I'm delighted to have you here. We've been collaborating for a number of years. Um, you as a disclaimer or a client, um, you know, I have done several pieces for Accenture over the years.

Graham Nolan (68:03:27.157)
No worries.

Graham Nolan (68:03:32.757)
Yeah, 100%.

Gerry Scullion (68:03:50.006)
Um, but today we're going to be speaking a little bit more around the trends when the trends, um, I know of from a very long time, former podcast host on this is eight city, Andy Plain, um, was heavily involved in. Yeah. I have been involved in did awesome work with that along with Mark Curtis. So before we jump into the trends zone, kind of, you know, talk only about trends. I want to learn a little bit more around you.

Graham Nolan (68:04:05.045)
as you will.

Gerry Scullion (68:04:17.622)
And tell us a little bit about your background and what you do at Accenture song. Yeah, sure. So listen, thanks for having me, Gerry. Good to be on the podcast. And by way of introducing myself, I mean, my third role is head of design with Accenture song. I've been with Accenture for seven years. I came through the Fjords studio in...

Graham Nolan (68:04:22.613)
Yeah, sure. So listen, thanks for having me, Gerry. Good to be on the podcast. And by way of introduction to myself, I mean, my current role is head of design with Accenture Song. I've been with Accenture for seven years. I came through the Fjord studio in the dock, which is Accenture's global center for innovation. And...

Gerry Scullion (68:04:46.39)
Doc, which is Accenture's global center for innovation. And I led a fjord design team in there for about four years. And then after that, I moved into a new area in Accenture called Accenture song. And what Accenture song really is, is it's a combination of all of Accenture's creative muscle and talent. Rothko has now become a member of Five.

Graham Nolan (68:04:50.869)
I led a fjord design team in there for about four years. And then after that, I moved into a sort of a new area in the Accenture called Accenture song. And what Accenture song really is, is it's a combination of all of Accenture's creative muscle and talent. You know, Rothko has now become Droga 5. That's part of Accenture song.

Gerry Scullion (68:05:15.158)
That's part of Accenture Song. We have our design team, we have our creative technology team, we have our customer service and customer transformation teams, we have content teams, and we have customer data analytics teams. So Accenture Song will be bringing all of those muscles together, thinking about customer obsession, and helping our clients understand how to design and create and communicate products and services and commercial propositions.

Graham Nolan (68:05:16.661)
We have our design teams, we have our creative technology teams, we have our customer service and customer transformation teams, we have content teams and we have customer data analytics teams. So Accenture Song will be bringing all of those customer muscles together, thinking about customer obsession and helping our clients understand how to design and create and communicate products and services and commercial propositions around customers.

Gerry Scullion (68:05:45.014)
around customers today and tomorrow. That's very good. So the, um, the trends report that's been going, I don't know how many years I'm going to say 10 years. Is that, is that roughly 17 years? Really? Okay. So it was, that's around the start of fewer than whenever fewer. When Fjords kicked off about over 17 years, 2024 minus 17 equals.

Graham Nolan (68:05:46.325)
today and tomorrow.

Graham Nolan (68:05:55.989)
It's actually been going 17 years, which is really good. 17 years, yeah.

Graham Nolan (68:06:03.541)
Yeah, when Fjord sort of kicked off about over 17 years ago. I won't do the songs, let's not do the songs on the fly. But yeah, no, you go for 17 years, I've been involved in about seven of them. And what's great about them is because everybody has trends, you know, lots of consultancies, lots of agencies will sort of publish their viewpoint on trends. What's unique about

Gerry Scullion (68:06:15.094)
on the fly. I know. You go for 17 years. I've been involved in about seven of them. Okay. What's great about them is because everybody has trends. You know, lots of agencies, lots of agencies will sort of publish their viewpoint on trends. What's unique about Accenture Life Trends is it's not done by a group of research buffoons in a lab. Sometimes trends are published by maybe the brains of five people.

Graham Nolan (68:06:32.949)
Accenture Life Trends is not done by a group of research buffoons in a lab. Sometimes trends are published by maybe the brains of five people. What we actually do right across Accenture is we invite everybody in Accenture from our consultancies to our innovation labs, Accenture research, all of our design studios around the world to sort of spot

Gerry Scullion (68:06:45.27)
What we actually do right across the venture is we invite everybody in the venture from our consultancies to our innovation labs, venture research, all of our design studios around the world to sort of spot what signals we're seeing in terms of the intersection of human technology and business. We bubble up all of that.

Graham Nolan (68:07:02.485)
what signals we're seeing in terms of the intersection of human technology and business. And we bubble up all of that data and that insight effectively into an editorial committee that clusters all of that and then just boils it down to this year, most years, about five really compelling things. So it's actually the product of the brains of probably around 2000 people around Accenture, which is really good. It's a great richness work.

Gerry Scullion (68:07:12.822)
effectively into an editorial committee that sort of clusters all of that and then just boils it down to this year, most years, about probably really compelling themes. OK, so it's actually the product of the brains of probably around 2000 people around, which is really good. Yeah. And is like I remember Mark Curtis, that name was Mark. Is he still kind of figureheading or spearheading the trends? He's still spearheading it.

Graham Nolan (68:07:39.413)
He still spearheads it. He's very passionate about maintaining the essence of it, maintaining the fact that so many people can contribute to it. His role as thought leadership lead in Accenture Song is a huge part of bringing the trends on the road and sharing that with our clients. And he does that in Ireland an awful lot every year actually.

Gerry Scullion (68:07:41.654)
He's very passionate about maintaining the essence of maintaining the fact that so many people contribute to us. He's a huge, his role is kind of leading the leadership lead in Accenture song. He's a huge part of bringing the trends on the road and sharing that with our clients. He does that in Ireland an awful lot every year. Yeah. So is my audio cutting in and out by the way?

Graham Nolan (68:08:07.829)
No, I can hear you perfectly.

Gerry Scullion (68:08:08.054)
No, it's not. It might just be a might be Riverside on my hands. So as regards trends generally, like, you know, what does it give your clients and the people that read these? Like, I know it's an annual report, but what do people get out of it? What people get out of it is a sense of what is evolving, what is changing, what is being reimagined or rethought.

Graham Nolan (68:08:24.629)
I think what people get out of it is a sense of what is evolving, what is changing, what is being reimagined or rethought. It's really is kind of future focused, but not too future focused. It's very actionable now and an awful lot of the themes and the trends people can look at and go, yes, I can see that emerging or I'm hearing that from my customer research and the voice of the customer work that we're doing.

Gerry Scullion (68:08:37.142)
It's really, it's kind of future focused, but not too future focused. It's, you know, it's very actionable now. Yeah. And all of the themes and the trends people can look at and go, yes, I can see that emerging or I'm hearing from a customer research, the voice of the customer work that we're doing. Or I can see this start to hit news headlines globally and it's becoming part of our consciousness. So what it gives to us really is clues of what we need to be thinking about, what we need to be designing for.

Graham Nolan (68:08:52.821)
or I can see this start to hit news headlines globally and it's becoming part of our consciousness. So what it gives clients really is a clue to what we need to be thinking about, what we need to be designing for tomorrow to get started on.

Gerry Scullion (68:09:07.03)
tomorrow. So I've had a peak and I've had, uh, you know, I kind of, I guess before I got the peak and I imagine AI, AI, we need to have a buzz sound effect. Every time you say AI in this conversation, because it hasn't just arrived in the last 12 months, it's been bubbling up for a while, but it definitely feels like in the last six, 12 months, maybe 18 months, it's, it's kind of like,

hit hit kind of full force and a lot of people are talking about it and it's starting to have an impact and how people are working. What where does AI sort of intersect with the trends this year? What are your key pieces in that? Yeah, I mean, five trends this year, and you're absolutely right. I mean, it's it's slap bang in the middle of all of those. I think we can talk to you, right? We can talk about artificial intelligence.

Graham Nolan (68:09:51.861)
Yeah, I mean, we have five trends this year and you're absolutely right. I mean, AI is slap bang in the middle of all of those. I think we've been talking to you right. We've been talking about artificial intelligence for a very long time. I mean, we've been talking about artificial intelligence actually for over 20 years. I think this year, particularly with the advent of generative AI, to give you another buzzword,

Gerry Scullion (68:10:05.974)
for a very long time. I mean, we've been talking about artificial intelligence for over 20 years. I think this year, particularly with the advent of generative AI, we'll deal in other ways, but generative AI really is where AI starts to come out of the analytics lab or the backstage of an organization and starts to come into the front stage and actually

Graham Nolan (68:10:21.621)
But generative AI really is where AI starts to come out of the analytics lab or the backstage of an organization and starts to come into the front stage and actually employees and customers can start to touch it, use it, see it deployed and see it make meaningful change for them. Which is why I think GenAI in particular lately has...

Gerry Scullion (68:10:34.902)
employees and customers can start to use it, see it deployed and see it make meaningful change for them, which is why I think Gen .ai in particular lately has become much more prominent in terms of news headlines, in terms of conversations around workforce, in terms of conversation around brand content. Yeah, it's a huge trend this year.

Graham Nolan (68:10:50.581)
become much more prominent in terms of news headlines, in terms of conversations around workforce, in terms of conversation around brand content. So yeah, it's a huge trend this year.

Gerry Scullion (68:11:04.854)
So let's talk about generative AI because some people only know it as being AI. OK, so there's different types of of AI. And I'd love to hear your kind of thoughts and maybe the description of what generative AI is for the listeners out there. So they're able to articulate it. OK, they might not have ever really used a generative AI. So let's let's talk a bit more around that. How are you seeing it being used by businesses, generative AI?

Graham Nolan (68:11:35.253)
Yeah, so I mean, right now today, right across Accenture and right across many of our clients, we're starting to see AI come into the workforce model, right? And that's happening now. I mean, if you look at Microsoft Co -Pilot, which is effectively Microsoft's generative AI solution for the workplace to sit side by side with their digital workplace tools.

Gerry Scullion (68:11:35.51)
Yeah. So I mean, right now today, right across Accenture and right across many of our clients, we're starting to see AI come into the workforce model. Yeah. That's happening now. I mean, if you look at Microsoft Co -Pilot, which is effectively Microsoft's generative AI solution for the workplace, side by side with their digital workplace tools.

Graham Nolan (68:12:04.629)
What you're able to do now and people are doing now and pilots right across Accenture is imagine you got an email.

Gerry Scullion (68:12:04.854)
What you're able to do now and people are doing now and pilots right across Accenture is imagine you got an email. I'm looking at it now, go on. Yeah. Imagine you got an email and you're driving a car. Yeah. And rather than pull over on the road or rather than illegally take out your phone and start to read that email. Yeah. The AI will actually read that email out to you. That's great. That's handy. Yeah.

Graham Nolan (68:12:14.101)
Imagine you've got an email and you're driving a car and rather than pull over on the road or rather than illegally take out your phone and start to read that email, the AI will actually read that email out to you. So that's great. That's sort of, you know, classical, you know, NLP. But what you're able to do then is you're able to ask Copilot to effectively reply back to that email. You can give them some key prompts, which is...

Gerry Scullion (68:12:35.126)
What you're able to do then is you're able to ask Copilot to effectively reply back to that email. You can give them some key prompts, which is, tell Gerry, thank you very much for his email. Can you be really polite and tone? And can you schedule a meeting or a call with me and Gerry at a time that's free in my diary, Wednesday or Thursday next week? And that will then effectively make all of that happen. And what's interesting about that is...

Graham Nolan (68:12:44.181)
Tell Gerry, thank you very much for his email. Can you be really polite and tone? And can you schedule a meeting or a call with me and Gerry at a time that's free in my diary, Wednesday or Thursday next week? And that will then effectively make all of that happen. And what's interesting about that is that is less about clicks and it's more about conversation. And that's the way it's...

Gerry Scullion (68:13:03.894)
That is less about clicks and it's more about conversation. Yeah. And that's contextual as well. Exactly. And it's really contextual because, you know, it's not just reply back in a very binary way that we used to with our fingers. It's tonal. It's people like it's a motive. Wednesday and Thursday of next week. It's, you know, acknowledged.

Graham Nolan (68:13:13.045)
Exactly. And it's really contextual, you know, because, you know, it's not just reply back in a very binary way that we used to with our fingers. It's tonal. It's be polite. It's I'm free Wednesday and Thursday of next week. It's, you know, acknowledge jury's needs and asks. So through conversation with these AIs, what we're going to be doing is we're going to be able to layer on more of

Gerry Scullion (68:13:33.366)
needs and asks, you know, through conversation with these AIs, what we're going to be doing is we're going to be able to layer on more of what we need in terms of the action and the response. But also the AI is going to be learning off the back of that contextual data from us, because it's going to learn, for example, Graham and Gerry obviously have a relationship. Graham likes to normally be polite to Gerry. It's not a... Usually.

Graham Nolan (68:13:42.005)
what we need in terms of the action and the response. But also the AI is going to be learning off the back of that contextual data from us because it's going to learn. For example, Graham and Gerry obviously have a relationship. Graham likes to normally be polite to Gerry. It's not a challenging response because there might be another response that might be actually be more challenging here, be more assertive. So.

Gerry Scullion (68:14:02.806)
you know, challenging response, um, cause there might be another response that might be actually more challenging here. Yeah. So what the AI is learning off in order to anticipate the next time just starts to become much richer. Okay. So it takes into, it takes into consideration those previous conversations and the previous interactions. Exactly. You know, equally I can kind of go, okay, look, I need to present something and a meeting on Monday morning. Um,

Graham Nolan (68:14:11.285)
What the AI is learning off of in order to anticipate the next time just starts to become much richer.

Graham Nolan (68:14:24.085)
Exactly. Exactly. You know, equally, I can kind of go, okay, look, I need to present something in a meeting on Monday morning. Prepare a PowerPoint presentation around trust, responsible ethics in AI. I want to be 10 slides, very visual, but I want to make these five points. That's going to that's now possible for you to execute. And that is your voice. That is your requirements.

Gerry Scullion (68:14:32.246)
Prepare a PowerPoint presentation around trust and responsible ethics in AI. I want to do 10 slides, very visual, but I want to make these five points. That's now possible for you to execute. And that is your voice, that is your requirements, and that is a co -pilot and effectively taking that task or job to be done and executing that for you. Wow. So you're seeing businesses use this.

Graham Nolan (68:14:51.605)
And that is a co -pilot and effectively taking that task or job to be done and executing that for you.

Gerry Scullion (68:15:01.142)
You know, it is it is a trial right across the center. Many of our clients are now part of pilots or co -pilot with Microsoft. And it's happening. Yeah. So tell me about some of the the edge cases around. I don't even say edge cases, but some of the stories where where went wrong, where are the risks on how this can actually not be misused, but sometimes not get the set.

Graham Nolan (68:15:01.301)
It is in trial now right across the center. Many of our clients are now part of pilots for co -pilot with Microsoft. It's happening. Yeah. Already happening.

Gerry Scullion (68:15:29.654)
the outcome that people are looking for. Yeah, I mean, it's one of the big sub themes around generative AI, which is responsibility and ethics and trust. Yeah. Because if we're giving agents to these machines now to effectively take part of us and take many of the tasks that we used to do.

Graham Nolan (68:15:32.245)
Yeah, I mean, it's one of the big sub themes around generative AI, which is responsibility and ethics and trust. Because if we're giving agents to these machines now to effectively take part of us and take many of the tasks that we used to do and effectively start to learn and become smarter as a result of that, that needs to be governed.

Gerry Scullion (68:15:56.854)
and effectively start to learn and become smarter as a result of that, that needs to be governed. Right now, today, if you had an idea for a business, you can go to Chatchie BT, you can get Chatchie BT Effectivity to analyze the market for you. You can get Chatchie BT to create the business plan, white the marketing strategy, you can go to another.

Graham Nolan (68:16:02.485)
You know, right now today, if you had an idea for a business, you can go to chat GBT, you can get chat GBT effectively to analyze the market for you. You can get chat GBT to create the business plan, write the marketing strategy, you can go to another generative tool and you can get a logo and a brand identity. You can go to Microsoft co -plan it and create your go -to market deck.

Gerry Scullion (68:16:23.03)
generative tool and you can get a logo and a brand identity. You can go to Microsoft co -pilot and create your go -to market deck looking for funding. And you can use, you know, for example, Adobe Firefly to create your entire static content, your video, and so on. That's fascinating. But actually, what does that mean for trust? Because what's interesting about what I've just described there is...

Graham Nolan (68:16:31.509)
looking for funding and you can use, you know, for example, Adobe Firefly to create your entire static content, your video and so on. That's fascinating. But actually, what does that mean for trust? Because what's interesting about what I've just described there is that's the potential to create a brand from nothing in 30 minutes. And if you think about brands, like

Gerry Scullion (68:16:53.142)
That's the potential to create a brand from nothing in 30 minutes. Yeah. And if you think about brands, like a brand don't use a contract between a business and its customers. You know, we're creating this product for service. People have been involved in it. Care has been involved in it. Regulations have been involved in it. Sometimes it takes over 100 years to create these things that we have in our homes.

Graham Nolan (68:17:01.589)
A brand ultimately is a contract between a business and its customers, which is, you know, we're creating this product or service. People have been involved in it. Care has been involved in it. Regulations have been involved in it. Sometimes it takes over 100 years to create these things that we have in our homes. But now that can be done by a machine in 30 minutes. So.

Gerry Scullion (68:17:21.622)
But now that can be done by a machine in 30 minutes. Yeah, scary. New brands, new services, new products that are actually created through the lens of general. I can I trust them? Who's behind it? Very much so on the co -pilot conversation, like say in that scenario, you were driving your car and you said, send Gerry a response to this email. Instantly, my data has been.

Graham Nolan (68:17:26.101)
new brands, new services, new products that are actually created through the lens of generative AI. Can I trust them? Who's behind it? Is the content real?

Gerry Scullion (68:17:50.774)
used by the AI without my consent. So this bit, it's funny how I hear myself speak about AI and the first thing that I go to, it's not a place of fear. It's more about around a place of really trying to dissect, you know, where the potential pitfalls are. So like suddenly Microsoft has now got my name and my email address. And then I'm speaking to another client. How does that AI.

then ensure that my data and the conversations that I'm having with one client and not another client. And they're able to kind of use that against me as a someone who hasn't consented into that algorithm or that AI. And that's one of the conversations that I'm kind of really interested in understanding the governance around the AI pieces. Has that come up in the trends at all? Because it's great. It's like it's we're at the first.

stage of kind of like inception of these pieces into businesses. But the stage after that is when it starts going wrong and then they start reeling it back and they're like, what does that look like? Yes. And I think that governance piece, that ethics piece is in some ways the counterpoint we need to design. Three weeks ago, European Parliament in Strasbourg ratified the first effectively governance and regulations around the use.

Graham Nolan (68:18:56.981)
Yeah. Yes, and I think that governance piece, that ethics piece is in some ways the counterpoint that we need to design. But three weeks ago, the European Parliament in Strasbourg ratified the first effectively governance and regulations around the use of artificial intelligence. And that's quite significant because what that is going to create now is a

Gerry Scullion (68:19:19.062)
of artificial intelligence. And that's quite significant. Yeah. Because what that is going to create now is a momentum around responsible data usage and transparency around where AI is applied and how it's being applied and also what you're leading in terms of your data into the algorithm and the machine and the AI itself. So.

Graham Nolan (68:19:26.869)
a momentum around responsible data usage and transparency around where AI is applied and how it's being applied and also what you're leaving in terms of your data into the algorithm and the machine and the AI itself. So the regulation, I think what's significant about the regulation from Strasburg is when social media came out 20 years ago, we didn't have anything like that.

Gerry Scullion (68:19:47.51)
The regulation, I think what's significant about the regulation from Strasburg is when social media came out 20 years ago, we didn't have anything like that. And we know what's happened. The use and application of social media in the last 20 years when it's unchecked. Now, I think we've learned that. And now the European regulations, it's going to start. Start to figure out what does that mean for our country? Absolutely.

Graham Nolan (68:19:56.789)
And we know what's happened, the use and application of social media over the last 20 years when it's unchecked. Now, AI, we've learned, I think we've learned from that. And now European regulations is going to start. Start. We also have to figure out what does that mean for our organization? Who's the chief data officer? What's the role of legal? We can't just go and play in the sandbox. We've got to actually...

Gerry Scullion (68:20:16.886)
I mean, data officer, what's the role of legal? We can't just go and play in the sandbox. Yeah. Actually, design that governance and regulation into your organization and your teams. And that has to be experimented because the speed at which this is developed is like nothing we've seen before in terms of how how it was adopted, but also how it's iterating.

Graham Nolan (68:20:24.693)
design that governance and regulation into your organization and your teams.

Gerry Scullion (68:20:41.43)
Can I ask you a question? This is going to anywhere the listeners are going to be like throwing their eyes up to heaven. Here he goes. There's another one of these questions. How I see an AI, especially with Microsoft Copilot, is that there's an AI assistant. It's almost like Graham's personal assistant, but that's a standalone Graham AI. OK. So in my argument there of excuse me around the Microsoft Copilot, you've got.

one big supercomputer of the one instance of the AI. Is it right in saying that if it's a Graham AI and then you've got somebody else in Accenture like a Shane AI, that they they know each other, but they don't share that information. So is it is it a case of framing it like a an extension of yourself? Or do you know, is that data going back into that one big central repository of data and how it's been kind of cross pollinated?

Graham Nolan (68:21:38.037)
Yeah. I mean, there's, there is a version where all of the data is pulled together and we start to learn about many people's context, many people's preferences. But to be honest with you, Gerry, we're already doing that anyway with cloud. We're already doing that with social media. We're already doing that with search and email. So that's, that's already happening. You're right. This is the next layer on top of that. And.

Gerry Scullion (68:21:38.23)
Yeah, I mean, there's, there is a version where all of the data is in one big box. And we start to learn about many people's context, many people's preferences. But to be honest with you, Gerry, we're already doing that anyway with cloud. We're already doing that with social media. We're already doing that with search and email. That's, that's already happening. You're right. This is the next layer on top of that. And...

Graham Nolan (68:22:08.085)
without the right data governance in place.

Gerry Scullion (68:22:08.278)
without the right piece of governance in place.

Yeah, that can go unchecked. Can you get out of control? Because I remember all those back to the day the governance point. Yeah, it does. And I remember I had a great conversation with Scott Jensen, who was ex Google and Apple as well as one point. And he's big in the Fuzz space, like the free and open source software and his kind of vision, not just his vision, but the vision of Fuzz, the community of free and open source software, is that at some point.

Graham Nolan (68:22:13.845)
that can go unchecked and that can get out of control. So it all goes back to David Govind's point.

Gerry Scullion (68:22:43.574)
these big conglomerates, these massive organizations who are basically harvesting our data at some point. The consumer will realize that they can run a lot of these instances and own their own data in an autonomous way. So that's where the question I was having was like, is it a case of like in the future? I know it's probably not, it's but further down the track and it probably hasn't been in trends. And it's another one of my segues. But is it a case that in the future, generative AI could be?

you know, seen as an extension of ourselves and not just giving all your data to Microsoft. And then I'm also using chat GPT over here. And then I've got part of Google over here, but there's a case of having my own kind of instance of this running locally in my home. Is that something that you can see happening or organizations having their own AI that's localized to their own business? Absolutely. I think, you know, and one of the things that is starting to.

Graham Nolan (68:23:29.589)
Yes.

Yeah.

Graham Nolan (68:23:37.237)
Absolutely. I think, you know, and one of the things that is starting to facilitate that and help that is organizations branding their own AI. So, you know, Microsoft co -pilot is a very clear articulation of that product and service. What its proposition is, what its right to be in people's lives is, what it can do for you, what it won't do for you. So, you know,

Gerry Scullion (68:23:42.71)
facilitate that and help that is organizations branding their own AI. Okay. You know, very interesting. Co -pilot is a very clear articulation of that product and service, what its proposition is, what its right to be in people's lives is, what it can do for you, what it won't do for you. So, you know, co -pilot, Alexa. Yeah.

Graham Nolan (68:24:07.413)
ToePilot, Alexa, that's a generative AI. It's branded, it's humanized. But equally, what you've just alluded to there is.

Gerry Scullion (68:24:11.702)
That's a generative AI. 100 % It's humanized. Um, well equally what you've just alluded to there is.

Graham Nolan (68:24:21.333)
Organizations are using AI, but people are also using AI as organizations. So, you know, instead of going to a search bar and saying, find me a black jumper, you know, find me a black jumper size XL that's made of this material that's available for shipping in 24 hours. And then sort of using that.

Gerry Scullion (68:24:21.526)
Organizations are using AI. People are also using AI. Yeah. That's organization. Yeah. So, you know, instead of going to a search bar and saying, find me a black jumper, you know, find me a black jumper size XL that's made of this material that's available for shipping in 24 hours. Yeah. And then sort of using that.

Graham Nolan (68:24:50.965)
prompt to effectively search right across the internet in a very automated way. So the thing for designers to consider is we've kind of moved beyond click by basket search bar into these kinds of conversations that you can effectively use to in some ways go beyond just

Gerry Scullion (68:24:51.158)
prompt to effectively search right across the internet. Yeah, that's amazing. So the thing for designers to consider is we've kind of moved beyond click by basket search bar into these kind of conversations that you can effectively use to in some ways go beyond just...

Graham Nolan (68:25:20.341)
one Amazon or one Google and actually use the dataset, large language models to get what you want. Because it's no longer a case of just, I want a black jumper. This is actually what I want to do with that black jumper. And now you have the power to actually find that solution for you. So we've moved beyond just that binary search and we've also moved beyond organizations just using data to know people actually using alternative AI to solve their problems.

Gerry Scullion (68:25:20.566)
one Amazon or one Google and actually use the internet, large language models to get what you want. Yeah. There's no longer a case of just I want a black jumper. This is actually what I want to do with that black jumper. Yeah. And now you have the power to actually find that solution for you. So we've moved beyond just that binary search. Absolutely. We've moved beyond organizations just using data. So now people actually using generative AI to help their problems.

Yeah, it's really, really interesting. Like, and what you were talking there about is one organization having access to lots of different kind of sources of information. And I was in Miro's headquarters in Amsterdam a number of weeks ago, and they gave me a demo of how AI is being woven or weaved, not sure which was the right word there, into the platform and how you can actually have your

Graham Nolan (68:25:51.061)
You know.

Graham Nolan (68:26:12.437)
Thank you.

Gerry Scullion (68:26:16.662)
Atlassian Jira boards and you can have your Google Docs and your Google Sheets and all of these pieces. And how the AI is actually able to access that process that and determine some value out of it. Absolutely was mind blowing. I mean, like that there could could have taken me three or four days if you have to go through everything and kind of consolidate and synthesize and get some sort of insight out. And they were doing it in clicks. And I'm like, oh, this.

Graham Nolan (68:26:29.237)
Absolutely.

Gerry Scullion (68:26:46.038)
this isn't like, you know, in the future, this is, this was in the browser, you know, happening contextual to the information that we all created in the demo. And it was just, it was kind of flawless. We're experimenting with Accenture song. You know, how do you rethink customer service and even the old concept of FAQs? You know, I mean, whatever people were putting, you know, we were being pushed into these things called FAQs on websites. Or the graveyards as I call it. Yeah. To solve our own problem. Yeah.

Graham Nolan (68:26:55.861)
Absolutely. I mean, we're experimenting and Accenture song, you know, how do you rethink customer service and even the old concept of FAQs? You know, whenever people were put, you know, we were being pushed into these things called FAQs on websites, effectively to solve our own problems, you know. But now you can rethink that and effectively use Chatgyp.

Gerry Scullion (68:27:15.67)
But now you can rethink that and effectively use something to go and analyze that data set of the FAQs. And instead of just searching endless links and PDFs, the chat GPT will actually come back to you with the thing that you actually want. Yeah. That's going to change the customer service model. You know, you're going to be able to bring in an AI into a potter with the friends to solve where do we go to?

Graham Nolan (68:27:21.653)
to go and analyze that data set of the FAQs. And instead of just searching endless links and PDFs, the Chat GPT will actually come back to you with the thing that you actually want. So that's going to change the customer service model. You know, you're going to be able to bring in an AI into a WhatsApp group with your friends to solve, where do we go to next weekend? And that conversation with your friends in the WhatsApp group with the AI can feel very real and natural. And...

Gerry Scullion (68:27:44.758)
And that conversation with your friends in the WhatsApp group with the AI can feel very natural. Yeah. I mean, that's that's kind of it's pretty cool. I'm just just picture in the future of me saying I don't want to join a WhatsApp group. I can you join the WhatsApp group or be nice to Graham, but everyone else be condescending condescending and patronizing. Yeah. And then Graham goes, I don't want to be nice to Gerry.

Graham Nolan (68:27:51.413)
the AI will solve that travel problem for you. I mean, that's the kind of stuff we're experimenting with today.

Graham Nolan (68:28:03.445)
for me.

Graham Nolan (68:28:08.405)
We can do that today for you, Gerry. Or podcast. It's a podcast.

Gerry Scullion (68:28:14.198)
send my AI to that WhatsApp group, be condescending to Gerry, confuse his AI and be be nice to everybody else. And then it's just going to make me that's what's going on right now. But you know what? It wouldn't be too dissimilar to the school group on WhatsApp at the moment that like you've just got hundreds and hundreds of messages from people. I don't know what's going on. So the sooner we eradicate that kind of scenario of, you know.

Graham Nolan (68:28:22.965)
I think it's possible. I think it's possible. Maybe that's what's going on right now.

Gerry Scullion (68:28:41.718)
mass communication and having to troll through it to get some sort of relevant information. That's where it's going to be critical. That's where it's going to be really get rid of these notifications and it's contextual and saying, hey, listen, these are the bits you need to look at. That's where it'd be super powerful. Can I ask you another question on the trends, the stuff we know anyone listening to this will just be like, yeah, we knew that was going to be in there. But as regards to fear factor that comes with this, you know, for a long time, you know,

Graham Nolan (68:28:45.493)
Exactly.

Gerry Scullion (68:29:09.91)
We were saying all the machines are going to take your jobs. I don't think that's a case of like they, they might take your jobs. They are taking our jobs. Okay. Like designers. I know from coaching and training people around the world that there's a lot of people out there currently who are now looking for work. Okay. And the, the proliferation of AI, there's a, there's a severe correlation between the two. Um, and I'm probably making an assumption there that.

that that is actually one of the precursors to this. It's devalued the role of the designer potentially in organizations. Is there anything in the trends this year that really alludes to the workplace and what what impact this is going to have for kind of efficiencies, redundancies and so forth? Because I know that is out there at the moment. No, I mean, I think it's it's linked into the trust commentary that we have around.

Graham Nolan (68:30:02.357)
No, I mean, I think it's linked into the trust commentary that we have around generative AI. I don't necessarily share the same outlook that you have in terms of it's as black and white or as binary as AI will take our jobs. AI is taking tasks away. Yeah. And sometimes jobs that are all about a task.

Gerry Scullion (68:30:07.542)
I don't necessarily share the same output that you have in terms of it's as black and white or as binary as AI will take our jobs. AI is taking tasks away. Yeah. And sometimes jobs that are all about a task. Yeah, that might actually, that role might actually disappear.

Graham Nolan (68:30:31.445)
Yeah, that might actually, that role might actually disappear. But in the same way, I think I said this to you before, in the same way, what, 40 years ago, when we all thought personal computers were going to come in and take our jobs. And, you know, computers would be doing everything that people in mail rooms or, you know, paper -based roles would have done. Actually, what it's done is it's created new roles.

Gerry Scullion (68:30:37.526)
But in the same way, I think I said this before, in the same way, about 40 years ago, when we all thought of personal computers, we're going to come in and take our jobs. And computers would be doing everything that people in mail rooms or paper -based roles would have done. Actually, what it's done is it's created new roles. It's created new economies.

Graham Nolan (68:31:00.949)
It's created new economies. It's created new ways of doing things at scale that you simply just couldn't do before. So I think we're probably in a moment where a lot of headlines are going around for an AI taking jobs. But I do think that's very narrow focused. What it's going to do is it's going to allow organizations to analyze the type of work that they historically have done. It's going to...

Gerry Scullion (68:31:03.926)
It's created new ways of doing things at scale that you simply just couldn't do before. So I think we're probably in a moment where a lot of headlines are going around, around AI taking jobs. But I do think that's very narrow focused. What it's going to do is it's going to allow organizations to analyze the type of work that they historically have done. It's going to...

Graham Nolan (68:31:30.229)
we're going to be able to identify and we're doing this in Accenture with our clients today, which parts of those tasks can be supported by AI, but then what are the further opportunities for those people to do more at scale, faster, more creatively, using data much smarter? So I think that's the mindset to take, which is...

Gerry Scullion (68:31:30.422)
going to be able to identify and we're doing this and etc with our clients today which parts of those tasks can be supported by AI but then what are the further opportunities for those people to do more at scale faster more creatively um using data much smarter so I think that's the mindset to take which is

Graham Nolan (68:31:58.933)
Yes, there are headlines out there and AI may actually come in and remove some of the roles or tasks, but there's going to be so much more possibilities on the other side because it's going to make so much more possible.

Gerry Scullion (68:31:59.126)
Yes, there are headlines out there and they may actually remove some of the roles. But there's going to be so much more possibilities on the other side because it's going to make so much more possible. Hopefully, hopefully, but I know maybe there's a different correlation, but a lot of people who are more senior have been kind of made redundant. And I'm trying to make the link between A .I. and that I don't know if it's true or not.

Um, but I know some people out there who have messaged me saying like, you know, there's, there's definitely something happening here. Um, but as regards freeing up, as you said, like the employees to make kind of more effective decisions to get back onto the tools, to make stronger impact and so forth. Do you really, is that a really a belief that, you know, once we, we build the trust that we're going to be in this position where things are going to be more possible.

Graham Nolan (68:32:58.293)
Well, I mean, I'll give you an example. If you take the creative space, you know, where historically an art director or a copywriter would have to take a brief.

Gerry Scullion (68:32:58.486)
Well, I mean, give you an example. Yeah. Take the creative space where historically. An art director or a copywriter would have to take a brief. Yeah. Research would have to be done. Concepts created. Photographers, production companies. It's a very lengthy process.

Graham Nolan (68:33:13.013)
research would have to be done. Concepts created, photographers, production companies. It's a very lengthy process. Now, the role of a creative or a designer is probably going to change and actually they're going to be able to use new tools that they'll be able to engineer an awful lot more themselves. So,

Gerry Scullion (68:33:28.726)
Now the role of the creative or designer is probably going to change and actually they're going to be able to use new tools that they'll be able to engineer an awful lot more themselves. So actually the designers can be doing much more prompt engineering. Which AI tools do I use to create this design? So actually I think it is creative people much more agency choice.

Graham Nolan (68:33:42.293)
actually the designers going to be doing much more prompt engineering. Which AI tools do I use to create this design? So actually I think it gives creative people much more agency and choice and speed, by the way. You know, that's actually exciting.

Gerry Scullion (68:33:59.062)
And speed, by the way. Yeah. It's definitely exciting. It is like for me as an independent, I use it. I use it sparingly, actually. I use it at certain points where I feel like it might help. Like the platform that we're recording on here now, they have a really clever automation piece that sits behind podcast creation where it will automatically transcribe as we're speaking here.

So I get a transcription of the full episode. It'll do my show notes and so forth. It is fantastic that there is an independent, but I wonder, you know, as a consultancy where the risks are there with the relationship with the clients who, you know, historically consultancies have, you know, sold on time, sold on an effort. How does this shift that relationship now that the clients can access to these, these AIs and they can potentially.

do some of the things that you were doing using the AI. How's that gonna shift the relationship, do you feel? I think it'll shift commercially, it'll shift more towards value and outcomes. Oh brilliant, I mean that's - As opposed to time and people. And we're already doing that by the way, an awful lot of our conversations with clients now are based on that. I think it's going to change the tools that we can bring. Yeah.

Graham Nolan (68:35:00.757)
I think it'll shift commercially, it'll shift more towards value and outcomes as opposed to time and people. And we're already doing that, by the way, and an awful lot of our conversations with clients now are based on that. I think it's going to change the tools that we can bring, which is actually going to help differentiate the people and the consultancies.

Gerry Scullion (68:35:24.502)
which is actually going to help differentiate the people and the consultancies and the agencies who are actually leaned into AI. I can use it to make more possible and also kind of change the commercial model as well. The business model, yeah. So yeah, I just, I think that's the, you've used the word you're in love. That's when you have to approach this with the mindset, which is am I...

Graham Nolan (68:35:30.485)
and the agencies who are actually leaned into AI. I can use it to make more possible and also kind of change the commercial model as well as a result. You know, so yeah, I just, I think that's the, you've used the word you're in love. That's when you have to approach this with the mindset, which is am I holding onto the past and approaching this with fear or am I actually being optimistic about it?

Gerry Scullion (68:35:53.75)
holding on to the past and approaching this with fear. Or am I actually being optimistic about it and seeing it could actually change my business model and change the way of doing things? Yeah. And that's exciting. Yeah. That's the thing that you need to. Absolutely. Now, imagine Graham. We were out for dinner and, you know, people said to you like, oh, Graham, you work for Accenture and you've done the trends, you know, they'd say, what are the other pieces?

Graham Nolan (68:35:59.797)
and seeing it could actually change my business model and change the way of doing things. And that's exciting. And I think that's the thing to tune into.

Gerry Scullion (68:36:22.006)
the top three pieces other than AI that you're kind of most interested in, you're most kind of eager to talk about from your own perspective, not Graham Head of Design in Accenture Ireland, but just Graham, like where are the bits that you kind of feel like this is something worth chatting about? Well, I think the other, there's two other trends that really hit me this year. And the other one,

Graham Nolan (68:36:44.021)
But I think the other, there's two other trends that really hit me this year. And the other one, I think segues nicely from the AI conversation we've just had is, is, and I was a bit, it was quite a surprise to see this emerge in the trends this year, but there's a big thought around organizations that have stepped away from customer obsession. Sort of because of hard economics.

Gerry Scullion (68:36:50.454)
I think segues nicely from the AI conversation you just had is, and it was quite a surprise to see this emerge in the trends this year, but there's a big thought around organizations that have stepped away from customer obsession. Sort of because of hard economics, there's a little bit of love lost between organizations and their customers.

Graham Nolan (68:37:12.021)
there's a little bit of love lost between organizations and their customers. And it's sort of evidence in a number of really human things that I think you and your listeners will just nod when I outline them. Shrinkflation is becoming a thing. All right. And if you know anybody who's sort of probably a bit timely because we've just done this after Easter, but

Gerry Scullion (68:37:19.254)
It's sort of evidence in a number of really human things. I think you and your listeners will just nod when I outline them. Yeah. Trinflation is becoming a thing. All right. And if you know anybody who's probably retarded because we've just done this after Easter, but the whole narrative around chocolate bars are not the same size as they were. What?

Graham Nolan (68:37:40.629)
The whole narrative around chocolate bars are not the same size as they were when we were kids.

Gerry Scullion (68:37:46.23)
When we were kids, I thought I thought my hands had just got bigger. What are you talking about? Some of our products have actually shrunk in size. Is this because this is something that I've been saying for a long time at home. I'm like, when I was a child, my packet of crisps was big. I knew they'd shrunk, but do you have any more information on how much they've shrunk by? I don't know. Come on, you don't start a conversation throwing allegations out to Cadbury's.

Graham Nolan (68:37:49.109)
your hands are not working. Some of our products have actually shrunk in size. Yeah. And that's.

Graham Nolan (68:38:08.693)
I don't have the specific shrink data. What I can tell you, what I can tell you is in France, you know, the retailer Carrefour, so they're actually labeling products that are coming in shrunk versus what they used to be years ago. So Carrefour is a retailer. I've noticed that their suppliers,

Gerry Scullion (68:38:15.702)
Yeah. So they're actually labeling.

that are coming in shrunk versus what we used to be years ago. Really? And therefore as a retailer, I've noticed that their suppliers, and imagine that retailer supplier relation, and close that. Yeah. Here's the retailer actually saying, you know, hang on a second, this product has come in, it's lighter, less, because they are putting a label on it. You're like, I know there's something about this banana. I can't put my finger on it, but.

Graham Nolan (68:38:36.629)
And imagine that retailer's buyer relationship, how close that needs to be. But here's the retailer actually saying, no, hang on a second, this product has come in, it's lighter, less, because they are putting a label on it.

Graham Nolan (68:38:52.021)
Thank you.

Gerry Scullion (68:38:53.142)
It's it's still it still tastes like it's like what's going on like that? That's because of hardy, hardy. Yeah. You know, we've had the resources we've had to pull back and also the cost of materials. Yeah. And then actually the things that might have been 100 grams years ago are now less. Yeah. Another thing around.

Graham Nolan (68:38:55.957)
It's because of hard economics. We've had to pull back and also the cost of materials, the cost of supplies, that actually the things that might have been 100 grams years ago are now less. Another thing around the customer obsession or the lack of it is skin inflation.

Gerry Scullion (68:39:20.47)
customer obsession or the lack of it is, you know, skin place. You walk into a restaurant, you walk into a hotel or you walk into any sort of service organization. There's less people there on the floor. There's less people at the counter. You know, have you ever hired a car recently? Yeah, I did last week. You know, you just look at it and go, there needs to be more people here because, you know, there's one person. News happening. One person.

Graham Nolan (68:39:24.853)
You walk into a restaurant, you walk into a hotel or you walk into any sort of service organization. There's less people there on the floor. There's less people at the counter. Have you ever hired a car recently? You know, you just look at it and go, there needs to be more people here because, you know, there's much demand and there's views happening. One person doing both returns and corrections. The other thing around,

Gerry Scullion (68:39:49.654)
doing both returns and actions. The other thing around customer obsession is pricing. We're starting to see this thing, the increase of surge pricing. Surge pricing, which we typically saw in the airline industry. There are now bars in London who are surge pricing their beer based on the time of day week. If you go to a bar in London on a Tuesday, you might pay six.

Graham Nolan (68:39:56.085)
customer obsession is pricing. We're starting to see this thing, the increase of surge pricing, you know, so surge pricing, which we typically saw in the airline industry. There are now bars in London who are surge pricing their beer based on the time of day week. So if you go to a bar in London on a Tuesday, you might pay six pounds for a pint. But if you go to that same bar on a Saturday, it's eight.

Gerry Scullion (68:40:19.446)
If you go to that same bar on a Saturday, it's eight. That surge pricing now coming out of just the airline industry and being applied to lots of other categories. Ticketmaster, another one. Ticketmaster do that as well? Surge by demand? Exactly. Exactly. And then the other thing is subscriptions. So there's now a car company in Germany who are launching a subscription if you want to turn the heater on your seats.

Graham Nolan (68:40:23.989)
And that surge pricing now coming out of just the airline industry and being applied to lots of other categories. And the other thing is.

Graham Nolan (68:40:34.517)
Exactly. Exactly. You know, and then the other thing is subscriptions. So there's now a car company in Germany who are launching a subscription if you want to turn the heater on your seats.

Gerry Scullion (68:40:50.422)
What? When you look at all these signals, what's happening now is it's a tough economic time for our clients. It's there are choices being made now around the customer experience model. The cost is being taken out of it and customers are seeing that. And what that is, we're going to test is what we would call the elasticity of forgiveness. Because there's a point where people just go. No more.

Graham Nolan (68:40:50.645)
So when you look at all these signals, what's happening now is it's a tough economic time for our clients. It's, there are choices being made now around the customer experience model. Cost is being taken out of it and customers are seeing that. And what that is ultimately going to test is what we would call the elasticity of forgiveness. Because there's a point where people just go, no, no one.

Gerry Scullion (68:41:19.958)
And then one can just hang on that point for a second. I own the car. Is that right? And you're saying that if I want to have my seats heated, I need to have a subscription for who? With who? Why? Like like a Toyota or something, if I want to heat the cars, I have to pay extra for it. Any of those nuts? Why? Because they're looking for more ways to make money.

Graham Nolan (68:41:25.045)
you own the cart, but...

499 for heated seats. You get the car, liar.

Graham Nolan (68:41:40.149)
Any of those notes?

because they're looking for more ways to make money.

Gerry Scullion (68:41:47.19)
I just find it really crazy. You own the car outright. You need to subscribe to a feature in the car. Yeah. To unlock us. I mean, I own my laptop. The search engine comes free. Yeah. But the subscription for the cloud is extra. Yeah. Now other organizations are learning from that SAS type model. I'm bringing some of these places.

Graham Nolan (68:41:50.837)
you own the car outright, but you need to subscribe to a feature in the car. Yeah. I mean, I own my laptop. The search engine comes free. But the subscription for the cloud is extra. Now other organizations are learning from that SaaS type model and bringing some of these prices. I won't hold these for instance. Sorry.

Gerry Scullion (68:42:15.51)
If you'd like to use the space bar on your laptop, you have to take a subscription. Sorry, if you want to use the space bar on your laptop, you need to take a subscription. So, you know, it's crazy that our studios around the world are starting to see and we're starting to see it in voice and customer feedback as well. They're just.

Graham Nolan (68:42:24.853)
A little bit like that. A little bit like that. So, you know, they're all kind of signals that our studios around the world have started to see. And we're starting to see it in voice and customer feedback as well. They're just spotting it.

Gerry Scullion (68:42:40.15)
Wow. Some some sometimes on podcasts, I get speechless. That one there has just rendered me. Oh, I don't found it in speeches because I drive, you know, with a little bit of heat on my back because my back is always stiff. I'm getting to that age, middle age where I like it. Like the thoughts of my car company doing that. As you said, the elasticity for forgiveness. I would just be like, no.

Graham Nolan (68:43:05.845)
No.

Gerry Scullion (68:43:05.974)
This isn't this isn't something I'm interested in. I've been I've been doing it for so long at this stage. So it's it's really going to test us on an awful lot more. Now, there is a subreddit which I can share with you. Yeah, please do. I'll put in the show notes. People talking about various different examples of this lack of customer obsession. Yeah. I'll find it. Yeah, yeah, please do. Please do. Graham with the trends.

Graham Nolan (68:43:15.317)
There is a subreddit which I can share with you, which has about 150 ,000 people talking about various different examples of this lack of customer obsession. I'll find it and share it with you.

Gerry Scullion (68:43:34.582)
I remember I have a couple of them here in my bookshelf over here. But it is now digital. Is that correct? So you've got digital versions of the trends that people can access. Is that right? Absolutely. They're completely there to be accessed by anybody. I can share the link with you. You can share with others. Yeah. It's definitely worth. I know you used to like the books. You used to like the hard way to go. Cray me manny about this. I'd go, yeah, just send me the book first. And you're like, we don't do the book anymore.

Graham Nolan (68:43:44.949)
Absolutely. They're completely there to be accessed by anybody. I can share the link with you. You can share it with your listeners. I know you used to like the books. You used to like the hard -pinked book, Gerry.

Graham Nolan (68:44:02.549)
Anyway, thanks for the interview.

Gerry Scullion (68:44:02.55)
for sustainability reasons. Yeah, there's two sides of that conversation, which I won't get into, but Gerry McGovern would definitely have something to say to you about running it digitally versus physically. But with the digital link, is that do you have to enter a password or anything to get it? I know some some of our listeners whenever I've done that. It's OK. Yeah. Yeah.

Graham Nolan (68:44:23.285)
No, completely open. So anybody can access them. Yeah, I think we have them public.

Gerry Scullion (68:44:29.526)
So one last thing, and I know Accenture, as I said, they're our client folks. There is a relationship there, but I have got carte blanche and what I can ask Graham today. It's not one of those scripted conversations in terms of your role at, you know, Accenture Ireland. I know from training that the team has grown and continues to grow. And like every organization around the world, they say they really struggle with finding great, great people.

Is this is a chance to give a shout out if there's people out there who are looking to work who I believe are one of the best design teams in Ireland. And, you know, they do an awful lot of great work. Again, I got I'm lucky I get to see and speak to a lot of designers. What's the situation like? Are there are there opportunities opening up within the team in in Accenture, Ireland? Yeah, I mean, I think we we would advertise publicly on potential careers and broken roads. We.

Graham Nolan (68:45:05.717)
Thanks, Gerry.

Graham Nolan (68:45:19.349)
Yeah, I mean, I think we would advertise public for young, eccentric careers in terms of open roles. We would also work closely with partnerships, like the UX Design Institute, which would bring people in and they might intern with us. And actually two people who interned with us have been successful and gone full time as well, which is a brilliant story. And then we also...

Gerry Scullion (68:45:28.47)
would also work closely with partnerships, the UX design Institute. Okay. Yeah. People in and they might in turn with us and actually two people who interned with us and been successful and done full time as well. Which is a brilliant story. Yeah. Um, and then we also, we also like to just welcome designers in if they want to hang out. So we have this vehicle called the design chapter. Um, and.

Graham Nolan (68:45:47.925)
We also like to just welcome designers in if they want to hang out. So we have this vehicle called the design chapter. And what it does is it links up all of our designers across Accenture. So we have designers in Accenture song, we have designers in Accenture technology, in our Avanade business group, we have designers in Droga 5 as well. So some of our people set up a design chapter.

Gerry Scullion (68:45:59.126)
What it does is it links up all of our designers across the Center. We have designers in the Center Song, we have designers in the Center Technology, in our Avanade Business Group, we have designers in Droga 5 as well. So some of our people set up a design chapter and actually one of the things that we do is we put about 70 people in that chapter right across the Center. They meet up regularly, share design stories.

Graham Nolan (68:46:16.437)
And actually, one of the things that we do is we've got about 70 people in that chapter right across Accenture. They meet up regularly, share design stories. And we're actually inviting students from the University of Manuth to join us and hang out for a day and listen to some of those talks as well. So if anybody wants to participate in our design chapter, dial in to any of our calls. If they want to reach out to you, Gerry, you can do that to me and we'll do that.

Gerry Scullion (68:46:24.47)
And we're actually inviting students from the University of Newt. OK, I guess for a day and some of those talks as well. So if anybody wants to. Excellent. You know, our design chapter dial into any of our calls. If you want to reach out to you, Gerry. Yeah, I connect you. I'm happy to connect. I'm always I'm always happy to be happy to be the middleman. The minute.

Graham Nolan (68:46:47.125)
and connecting them towards design factor codes.

Gerry Scullion (68:46:51.766)
university, I interviewed John Foley, who's an ex graduate of that, that program in Manuth. They do brilliant stuff from speaking to John. They're one of the places that I recommend in Ireland for really solid strategic design. They they really got it. John was a remarkable designer, he was at Livework in London. I still think he's over there. But yeah, that'd be brilliant for the students of Manuth to get in and experience what I call the nightclub.

Graham Nolan (68:47:01.109)
Yeah.

Gerry Scullion (68:47:21.686)
in Smithfield, the studio. It's just a super cool space. It's it. Yeah. The drum kit. No one really plays the drum kit, Graham. And I've been in there so often and I'm looking, is it something that the drum kit ever gets played? I never actually seen a drum kit in play. No, as a bass player myself. And this. Well, do you know what? You can get an A .I. drum machine now. You get an A .I. drum machine.

Graham Nolan (68:47:26.389)
It's a great space. We're very lucky.

Graham Nolan (68:47:37.685)
I have never actually seen the drum playing played and as a bass player myself, I'm just aching for someone to play the drum because I'd love to take it on a bass. There I draw the machine journey.

Gerry Scullion (68:47:50.23)
You know, and I want the Seinfeld theme tune played the next time I come into the studio. So played by you, not by an AI. Graham, I'm going to throw a link to your LinkedIn as well, because, you know, it is a great way to connect with people and, you know, build a network as well around this conversation, especially. Is it okay if people reach out to you if they've got any questions? Always go to my connections and. Yeah, yeah, great.

Graham Nolan (68:48:11.125)
100 % always good to make connections and yeah, we can meet with like -minded people.

Gerry Scullion (68:48:17.686)
Graham, listen up. Thanks so much for your time today. I'll put a link to the trends in the show notes or the description if you're watching on YouTube and we'll have to get you back on the next time the next trends come out. Graham. Thanks again. Gerry, an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for your time. No worries, man.

Graham Nolan (68:48:31.285)
Gerry an absolute pleasure and thank you so much for your time.

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