The Punk Moment: Itziar Pobes on What Service Design Has to Stop Doing

[00:00:00] Gerry Scullion: Hey folks, and welcome back to another episode of This is HCD. My name [00:00:05] is Gerry Scullion and I'm a human-centered service design practitioner based in the beautiful city of Dublin [00:00:10] Ireland. Now, today in the show, I'm delighted to welcome its ear Paez and its ear as one of the [00:00:15] co-founders and the main instigators of the latest service design conference to enter the [00:00:20] scene. [00:00:20] Gerry Scullion: And that is SD Disrupted Service Design Disrupted, which is in Barcelona in [00:00:25] October of this year. Now, we caught up with, uh, [00:00:30] its year, maybe a couple of weeks ago. And full disclosure, I'm one of the speakers at the event this [00:00:35] year alongside some stellar service design, uh, speakers like Lou down, [00:00:40] Mark Horne, Rachel deas. [00:00:43] Gerry Scullion: Many of you for a long time, [00:00:45] listeners of the podcast will know just how amazing all of those speakers are, and there's many, [00:00:50] many more. Now in this episode, we used something quite novel. We used [00:00:55] AI to help create the questions, um, and used it kind of [00:01:00] joly through the conversation where we discussed some of the themes that have been, [00:01:05] uh, surfaced as the main kind of bedrock for this event in [00:01:10] Barcelona this year, which I'm so excited to go to Barcelona, its year is a [00:01:15] fantastic guest, a fantastic practitioner as well. [00:01:17] Gerry Scullion: More to the point and [00:01:20] has some wonderful things and wonderful thoughts to say about the themes this year and [00:01:25] why it's so prevalent. We have a special discount code for anyone wanting to [00:01:30] go to SD disrupted in Barcelona in October of this year. [00:01:35] All you have to do is go to visit hcd.com, join up, okay? [00:01:39] Gerry Scullion: There's [00:01:40] a free community there. You've might have seen that. We've actually got our own community now. We built [00:01:45] it ourselves, and inside there there's partner codes where you can get discounts to [00:01:50] lots of the people that support and we believe in their products such as Unit one [00:01:55] or mapley. Um, you know, a longtime supporter of this podcast, and [00:02:00] of course, se SD disrupted where you can get, uh, I think it's a 10% or maybe even a [00:02:05] 15%, maybe 10% discount on the tickets for the event itself.[00:02:10] [00:02:10] Gerry Scullion: It's gonna be phenomenal. There's workshops, there's lots of great speakers, [00:02:15] and Barcelona is an absolute cracking city to go and visit. Um, so why [00:02:20] not kill two birds or even three birds with one stone? Let's get into the episode.[00:02:25] [00:02:30] [00:02:34] Gerry Scullion: [00:02:35] It's here. It's great to have you on the podcast. Um, [00:02:39] Itziar: thank [00:02:40] you. [00:02:40] Gerry Scullion: I'm delighted to have you here. Like, you know, we actually met in person last year in Stockholm very [00:02:45] briefly when we, we were both speaking at, uh, journey ops. [00:02:49] Itziar: [00:02:50] Journey ops, [00:02:50] Gerry Scullion: journey ops, which ESA and Atmo runs up there in Stockholm, [00:02:55] in Malmo. Um, so I was really impressed at the time you were working for a big [00:03:00] insurance company and your talk was brilliant alongside [00:03:05] Martina as well. [00:03:05] Gerry Scullion: Who, um, okay. We both have fond, uh, [00:03:10] you know, kind of fondness for what we're delighted to have you on the show because we've reconnected [00:03:15] recently, um, about service design disrupted, and this is, you [00:03:20] know, completely cards on the table. You know, I'm, I'm speaking at this event, um, [00:03:25] but I really believe in this event because it's super [00:03:30] important for the community of both human-centered design and service design. [00:03:34] Gerry Scullion: [00:03:35] So it's great to have you one of the co-founders of, of the conference on to talk about where you [00:03:40] see the craft of service design and why we need another event just like [00:03:45] this. It's great to have you in the show. [00:03:48] Itziar: So, yeah, I wanted to [00:03:50] say that also, uh, when we just started and we just published [00:03:55] the, the event. [00:03:56] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. Uh, [00:03:57] Itziar: like two, three days after [00:04:00] Gerry wrote like, Hey, I'm enthusiastic about it. How, what can I do? Yeah. How can I be part [00:04:05] of this? And, and that was really amazing to us. [00:04:10] Yeah. No, I [00:04:10] Gerry Scullion: just, [00:04:11] Itziar: new coming and also receiving like these like, uh, [00:04:15] [00:04:15] Gerry Scullion: help, [00:04:15] Itziar: amazing support. [00:04:17] Gerry Scullion: I mean, 'cause I think way back in 20 [00:04:20] 18, 20 19, myself and Andy Plane, at one point were going to run, [00:04:25] uh, design conference in Dublin and then COVID hit. [00:04:28] Itziar: Mm-hmm. [00:04:28] Gerry Scullion: But the pressure [00:04:30] was, um, was massive. Uh, even like booking a venue [00:04:35] and it's, it's kind of like the field of dreams. If you build it, they will come. But what, what happens [00:04:40] if they don't come? You know? I know we're, we were like [00:04:45] kind of saying, okay, well what does that look like? So whenever I see anyone putting their hand up to [00:04:50] host an event and that, that goes for the SDN and it goes for anyone else who runs these, um, [00:04:55] amazing events, it's super difficult. [00:04:57] Gerry Scullion: It's not, it's not [00:05:00] guaranteed. And, um, it's just, it's a risk. So, um, but [00:05:05] what I really found really powerful was, this is coming from the community. [00:05:10] It's not a professional, um, conference production team [00:05:15] who go around the world and put events on, you know, in many [00:05:20] cities this is a team based and from the area, [00:05:25] um, where the conference is gonna be. [00:05:28] Gerry Scullion: So what we've done [00:05:30] folks is a little bit novel. Okay. Um, there's some really strong [00:05:35] themes in service design disruptors, and we've used this breaking technology [00:05:40] called artificial intelligence, which is also abbreviated as AI [00:05:45] to create a series of questions for us. Revolutionary. I know people are gasping. [00:05:49] Gerry Scullion: [00:05:50] Hopefully you're not crashing your car if you're listening to this. But we've got a series of questions that I [00:05:55] wanted to ask. It's here as well, um, about the event and why this [00:06:00] is important. And it, it leads and it feeds so beautifully into where we're at this [00:06:05] moment in time and why these conversations 'cause 'cause they are conversations, [00:06:10] why they're so important right now to help us on the journey, navigate [00:06:15] this crazy world that we find ourselves in. [00:06:18] Gerry Scullion: So it's [00:06:20] here. Are we okay? Are we okay for me to throw these questions at you that [00:06:25] are, are not [00:06:26] Itziar: We are [00:06:27] Gerry Scullion: great. We are, we're okay. We're okay with this. So the, the [00:06:29] Itziar: we're [00:06:30] okay. I wanted to say that I was tempted to record you through [00:06:35] Whisper Exactly. And put his questions through my own, [00:06:40] uh, plot and get the answers. [00:06:41] Itziar: But I didn't do that. So [00:06:45] [00:06:45] Gerry Scullion: it's funny, [00:06:45] Itziar: I'll be answering with like, like I [00:06:50] was going to say, human intelligence or whatever, whatever I can produce. [00:06:54] Gerry Scullion: I think [00:06:55] everyone who probably listens to the podcast has, has tried AI probably at least once. And some people [00:07:00] are really involved in it. But the last hurdle for me is still writing. [00:07:04] Gerry Scullion: I [00:07:05] still, um, and when we were talking it here was like, why aren't you using Whisper flow to, to do [00:07:10] any of this stuff? And I go, well, I, I feel like I need to write [00:07:15] these things myself 'cause I'm trying to understand the thing as well. And it's the last hurdle for me to, [00:07:20] to give up. But I don't think I will give it up, to be honest. [00:07:22] Gerry Scullion: I still think it's really important for my brain [00:07:25] to understand the problems and I'm trying to understand. Um, so let's [00:07:30] talk about the event. Okay. So, um, question number one is service design already [00:07:35] has its share of conferences. What did you feel was missing from these or [00:07:40] those rooms that made you and your co-founder say We need to build service design [00:07:45] disrupted, and why? [00:07:46] Gerry Scullion: The word disrupted. [00:07:49] Itziar: So [00:07:50] let me start by saying that, uh, among these conferences that were already [00:07:55] existing, there was one in Barcelona for many years, and it stopped [00:08:00] last year. Last year was the, the last year to be organised there. [00:08:03] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:08:04] Itziar: And so [00:08:05] this actually started as a movement from the community saying, well, we, we [00:08:10] can't lose this. [00:08:11] Itziar: Yeah. Like [00:08:11] Itziar: this, it was great for us. Like, well, I don't, [00:08:15] uh, live in Barcelona anymore, but I used for many years. [00:08:18] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:08:18] Itziar: And for us, it felt like, okay, [00:08:20] all of these amazing service designers are just coming to your doorstep. [00:08:24] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:08:24] Itziar: Like, [00:08:25] it, it was a, an amazing opportunity to be exposed to, to [00:08:30] top voices in service design and, and we resisted losing it. [00:08:34] Itziar: [00:08:35] And that was the starting point. But then we need, we knew we couldn't [00:08:40] just continue what we had. We had to like find, well, why be [00:08:45] beyond for us as a community wanting this, what is it the angle? What do we [00:08:50] need to do to make these, uh, conference relevant [00:08:55] for, uh, for everyone else? [00:08:57] Gerry Scullion: Mm-hmm. [00:08:57] Itziar: And this is where we [00:09:00] started looking into, well, what's happening with services and what is the current situation? [00:09:04] Itziar: [00:09:05] And of course there's a lot of LinkedIn hype and, uh, all, all, [00:09:10] all of noise that you have around. But beyond that noise, we did [00:09:15] interview, uh, a few people from the community, different, different levels, and, uh, [00:09:20] leaders in design and, and also other people that, [00:09:25] uh, are relevant, uh, for us to try to understand what is [00:09:30] going through in the minds of service designers at this particular moment. [00:09:34] Itziar: [00:09:35] Absolutely. And we realised [00:09:40] that people are feeling a bit confused. Yeah. All these noise and [00:09:45] yes, the confusion is partly about ai, but, but I don't think that it is only [00:09:50] ai. Uh, there is a lot more going on with organisations lately. [00:09:55] Uh, there, there had been a, a movement to begin, um, [00:10:00] service design teams in organisations, for example. [00:10:03] Itziar: And now these organisations [00:10:05] are moving from the hype of human centeredness or customer centricity into [00:10:10] something else. And, and then you're like, okay, I barely managed to, to start a [00:10:15] practise here and, and now we're moving on and moving on where, and [00:10:20] uh, and then the people that are in agencies, the agency model is like, [00:10:25] almost like I, you could say shrinking or, or like Yeah. [00:10:29] Itziar: At [00:10:30] least very, very, it's adapt in danger at the moment. [00:10:34] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:10:34] Itziar: [00:10:35] Or it has to evolve into something else. [00:10:37] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:10:38] Itziar: So people are confused [00:10:40] on their own role, what they want to do. I've seen a lot of people saying, well, I'm gonna become a PM [00:10:45] or I'm gonna move into some another field. Or how, like, how do, what do I do [00:10:50] now? [00:10:50] Itziar: Well, at the same time, you have a lot of UXers, for example, thinking, well, I need to [00:10:55] move like into a more strategic role and service design offers me that. So it's [00:11:00] like, [00:11:00] Gerry Scullion: it's funny. [00:11:01] Itziar: It's a very confusing moment very for [00:11:03] Gerry Scullion: everyone, pardon the pun, [00:11:05] because there's a ship behind me here and then the UX people are looking to over here and we're like, see ya.[00:11:10] [00:11:11] Itziar: So it's like, okay, what, what do we have to do at this moment? And at [00:11:15] the same time, a lot of people feel a bit isolated, whether you are the [00:11:20] only service designer in an organisation, or you have a team, but everyone is [00:11:25] like pressed with like layoffs and, and a lot of uncertainty. [00:11:30] And people feel this isolation and a lot of doubts about where we are going.[00:11:35] [00:11:35] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:11:35] Itziar: So we thought, well, how can we take this moment and, and [00:11:40] build an event that is centred around this, that is already talking [00:11:45] about this disruption? It's like, okay, let's face it. Yeah. Service design right now is disrupted. [00:11:50] What can you do? In the course of today's to [00:11:55] help people go from this confusion and and uncertainty [00:12:00] to understand what is their own role? [00:12:03] Itziar: Like what is happening, what is, [00:12:05] what is affecting service design, and understand these factors and like put some [00:12:10] clarity into it. What is the field evolving and what can [00:12:15] I personally, as an individual designer, what, how do, what will be [00:12:20] my standing and what do I need to like, let go, what I need to, what [00:12:25] do I need to keep doing? [00:12:25] Itziar: What do I need to acquire? [00:12:27] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. And, [00:12:28] Itziar: and come up with decisions [00:12:30] and with the sensation that you have a community around that you actually met people making [00:12:35] the same questions and going through the same moment in the course of two days. [00:12:39] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:12:39] Itziar: Which is [00:12:40] a little bit of a challenge, but [00:12:41] Gerry Scullion: No, it's, it, it's great. [00:12:42] Gerry Scullion: Like, and I guess the, [00:12:45] the selection of speakers that you have, um, [00:12:50] kind of reflect that. Okay. And if you want Yeah. Um, without sounding like [00:12:55] it's too much of a sell, like I'll just give you, um, how many people are here. There's probably about 20, I'll go [00:13:00] through the names pretty quickly. So Rachel deas, he big friend of, of our [00:13:05] podcast and has been on many times and I collaborate and I work with Rachel, um, you know, occasionally.[00:13:10] [00:13:10] Gerry Scullion: So Rachel from Chicago, Lou down, uh, good services, bad services author. [00:13:15] Um, you know, we've got faul, which is the director of Service design for the [00:13:20] government of Alberta. Okay. Um, I follow Uhon [00:13:25] wk, um, they're, uh, senior lecturer at the University of Arts in [00:13:30] London, Manjari Sahu, um, senior service designer at [00:13:35] Rabobank. [00:13:36] Gerry Scullion: Then you've got this bald Irish fella, I dunno who he is. [00:13:40] Um, anyway, [00:13:40] Itziar: yeah, who would want to hear him [00:13:42] Gerry Scullion: move on from him? Like, you know, he [00:13:45] looks crazy. And then you've got Paul Menon, uh, co-founder of design [00:13:50] Club, and then you've got Mabel Mark stick. As you would say, Mabel is [00:13:55] Irish for like friend. Uh, he's been on the podcast. [00:13:58] Gerry Scullion: We don't know how many [00:14:00] times we've stopped counting. Alfredo, Freddy, Lina, head of service, design and [00:14:05] experience Design. At, at, um, you've got Igna, Giro, [00:14:10] uh, rig, uh, head of Strategic Design at Airbus. Ooh, I'll be interested to speak [00:14:15] to him. Uh, QAR. Zania, I've absolutely hammered your name. I'm [00:14:20] so sorry. Uh, QAR, uh, Kaska, [00:14:25] co-founder of Gut Lab, um, is a strateg strategist and process [00:14:30] designer, future thinker. [00:14:31] Gerry Scullion: And then you've got Simon Goff, uh, I know that name Director Red Front. [00:14:35] Alessio Rolo, head of user experience and design validation at Rush. [00:14:40] Fantastic. Uh, Roman, uh, scho, boom. Research [00:14:45] assistant at University of Applied Sciences in Zurich. Then you got [00:14:50] hemanchu ela, uh, strategic Service Designer at Ikea, CGI. [00:14:54] Gerry Scullion: Fantastic. [00:14:55] Giovanni Olo. I am looking forward to meeting this guy. This guy I've wanted [00:15:00] to meet for a long time. Uh, he's a Bosch, yeah. Senior service designer. I follow, uh, [00:15:05] Giovanni. He seems like a really cool dude. Uh, Claudia Pico, [00:15:10] organisational development facilitator at Cocoon Pro. Another fantastic thinker.[00:15:15] [00:15:15] Gerry Scullion: Um, and then you've got RA managing partner at [00:15:20] Cocoon Pro. Uh, again, then you've got Bassam Jabri. Gemma, [00:15:25] uh, Canva from Frog, Carlotta, Cuba from [00:15:30] Frog, uh, Patricia Salcedo from Frog [00:15:35] German, Leon, uh, CEO of Helvetica Digital. And then you've got [00:15:40] Sonya Villanova as Kona. And I would like to end [00:15:45] that section with a massive apology for anyone who works with [00:15:50] most people's name. [00:15:50] Gerry Scullion: I absolutely destroyed the creation of that segment, but look, there's a lot of [00:15:55] people in there. [00:15:55] Itziar: Only a few of them. Only a few of them. [00:15:57] Gerry Scullion: Nice. Only a few. I've only messed up a few, [00:16:00] so I apologise. And when we get to Barcelona, you have got a full range to come over and [00:16:05] slap me at the back of the head the last day. [00:16:06] Gerry Scullion: So I apologise. [00:16:07] Itziar: But don't worry. Like your name is not [00:16:10] easy either. At least your surname. Like, it's like [00:16:13] Gerry Scullion: I, my name in [00:16:15] particular, uh, it's here. It was funny when, when I was finishing in, um, my degree in [00:16:20] industrial design, there was this, the Royal Society of Arts of a design award and [00:16:25] myself and a guy called Lou and Lawler won one of the cer, one of the transport design [00:16:30] awards. [00:16:31] Gerry Scullion: It was my moment. I thought this was gonna be the biggest moment of my life. Like I was 22 [00:16:35] years old. Yeah. And I'm sitting in the auditorium in London. I'm waiting, waiting for my name to be [00:16:40] called up and they go, um, and now I've got the award for [00:16:45] transport design. Could you please welcome to the stage Gary Sullivan? [00:16:49] Gerry Scullion: And I'm like, oh, [00:16:50] [00:16:50] Itziar: yep. [00:16:51] Gerry Scullion: All I could think about when I was getting my photograph taken. Like, no, [00:16:55] Gerry, my name's Gerry, Gerry Scullion, not Gary Sullivan. So I know what it's like when you [00:17:00] get your name. Call that wrong. [00:17:01] Itziar: Yeah. [00:17:03] Gerry Scullion: So look, let's go onto to the next question. [00:17:04] Itziar: Well, to [00:17:05] be fair, I always hear my name wrong. [00:17:07] Gerry Scullion: Like, I live out of the Busque country. [00:17:10] My name is pre usual in the Busque country, but everyone else [00:17:15] desire assassinates it [00:17:16] Gerry Scullion: desire. Did they say that Desire? [00:17:19] Itziar: No, but a lot [00:17:20] of people say it's, or, or I or like all, all [00:17:25] variations, I tend to answer to anything that resembles my name. [00:17:29] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:17:29] Itziar: [00:17:30] Because [00:17:30] Gerry Scullion: it, people say it's. [00:17:32] Gerry Scullion: Do. Yes, [00:17:33] Itziar: you can say that. Yeah. [00:17:34] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:17:35] Okay. Very cool. I'll call you. Its here anyway, because that's your name. So, [00:17:39] Itziar: yeah, [00:17:39] Gerry Scullion: our, [00:17:40] our friend AI has now got some questions here. So what's reshaping our [00:17:45] world? So question number two, you've re, you've framed the [00:17:50] first track around cutting through the noise with ai dominating every [00:17:55] conversation right now. [00:17:56] Gerry Scullion: How do you personally tell the difference between hype and a [00:18:00] force that will lastingly change how service designers work? It's a [00:18:05] great [00:18:05] Itziar: question. It is a great question and there's many angles to answer it. [00:18:10] So I'm gonna start by linking it a little bit. Something that I already was advancing in the [00:18:15] previous question and I was like, okay, stop, stop. [00:18:17] Itziar: That's the next question coming. So [00:18:20] I don't think that AI is the only force that is, uh, impacting [00:18:25] services. And at the moment, [00:18:26] Gerry Scullion: yeah, [00:18:26] Itziar: it might look like it, especially if you go to LinkedIn. Like everything is [00:18:30] AI at the moment. [00:18:31] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:18:31] Itziar: And that's the high part. But in fact, [00:18:35] service design, I think it's been changing. [00:18:37] Gerry Scullion: Like I, I know at least personally for me, it [00:18:40] changed a lot since 2020. [00:18:42] Itziar: Yeah. [00:18:42] Gerry Scullion: Like already when we started not being in the [00:18:45] same room all the time and everything started to be a lot more online. That was a big [00:18:50] change for us and a big change for anything that was related with facilitation. [00:18:54] Gerry Scullion: [00:18:55] Yeah. [00:18:55] Itziar: And yes, you can do things online, but it's not the same. [00:18:59] Gerry Scullion: So I [00:19:00] think there, there was already a distance. And also the way that [00:19:05] companies are currently dealing with, with everything related hu with [00:19:10] human centricity has also created a change or the way that [00:19:15] companies are understanding their business models. And, and, but to be fair, [00:19:20] everything human or customer centricity was the previous hype. [00:19:23] Itziar: And that is over. And [00:19:25] now we are, we have to figure out how to survive when we are not the hype and [00:19:30] something else is the hype. And yes, AI will impact us of course, because it [00:19:35] impacts the way the services are delivered, the [00:19:40] way a we go about, uh, working the way that companies [00:19:45] are, are like pushing everyone to work. [00:19:47] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:19:48] Itziar: But at the same time, [00:19:50] uh, we are not the, the, the design field that is [00:19:55] the most impacted by ai. [00:19:57] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:19:57] Itziar: This whole fields that are practically [00:20:00] disappearing as they were. [00:20:01] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:20:02] Itziar: And reappearing, like do you have all the [00:20:05] conversational design, for example, that is in a big moment at, at the moment and [00:20:10] it wasn't that big before. [00:20:11] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:20:12] Itziar: And on the other hand, you have UI [00:20:15] practically disappearing from the map. [00:20:17] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:20:18] Itziar: And [00:20:19] Gerry Scullion: good points. [00:20:20] Good points. And I mean, the AI being not the only force. Is a really [00:20:25] solid one because the shift we've, you know, seen over the last [00:20:30] six, seven years has been radical. You wanna be, we're even commenting beforehand [00:20:35] the, the nature of being able to get your camera right if you're working remotely. [00:20:38] Gerry Scullion: So you don't look a little [00:20:40] bit, you know, a little bit odd we say on camera. Like, we had to [00:20:45] learn all these things. So how do you, how do you talk into a microphone? Or do you have a [00:20:50] microphone? How do you make sure your audio is good? How do you, these are all things we had to learn through COVID if you're [00:20:55] practising [00:20:56] Gerry Scullion: So, yeah. [00:20:57] Itziar: But not only that, how we structure things. I [00:21:00] remember in COVID you were talking about the conference that you were about to Yeah. Uh, organise in [00:21:05] 2020. [00:21:05] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:21:06] Itziar: And this reminded me that one of the co-founders of [00:21:10] Disrupted and me, Sylvia, Bert, and me. Yeah. At that time it was a high, like the top [00:21:15] of our, uh, career because we were invited to run a, [00:21:20] a workshop in New York, uh, for a rosenfeld, uh, [00:21:25] conference advancing research. [00:21:26] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:21:26] Itziar: And we were like, it was right in March, [00:21:30] 2020, there was a point where he was like, I'm going and no matter what. [00:21:35] And Sylvia was like, I have a family. I'm staying here. Yeah. And, and then they cancelled. And [00:21:40] so our workshop got moved from a one day workshop in person [00:21:44] Itziar: [00:21:45] Yeah. [00:21:45] Itziar: To a three day afternoon workshop online where nobody [00:21:50] really knew how to do workshops online. [00:21:52] Itziar: Yeah. We got some like tips from, [00:21:55] from Jim ak. From Miro. Yeah. And it was like, off you go. And, uh, [00:22:00] we recreated our workshop, and our workshop was full of moments of. [00:22:05] Kind of like trying to complete the activity and then [00:22:10] getting the surprise that there was a different angle to it. And we tested it with friends the week [00:22:15] before running it, and it was terrible. [00:22:19] Gerry Scullion: Like the, the [00:22:20] amount of cognitive load that people were able to sustain in [00:22:25] person versus what they could do online. Everybody got lost. We had to spend a whole [00:22:30] week redefining it and, and like kind of like tuning it down [00:22:35] so much. [00:22:35] Itziar: Yeah. [00:22:35] Itziar: That to us it looked completely dumb and still people were [00:22:40] like, okay, this is challenging. [00:22:42] Itziar: So I remember we have dumped our own, our own [00:22:45] workshops a lot. [00:22:46] Gerry Scullion: I know we've had to shift and adapt. [00:22:50] So the resilience Yeah. We know is there like they've adapted [00:22:55] once in the last six years, so, you know, being able to tap or [00:22:58] Itziar: more. [00:22:58] Gerry Scullion: Or more. Yeah. [00:23:00] So, um, going back to that, uh, piece with AI [00:23:05] dominating the conversation, how do you tell the difference with ai? [00:23:06] Gerry Scullion: We've done this one. We'll move on to the next question. Are we [00:23:10] [00:23:10] Gerry Scullion: Okay? [00:23:11] Itziar: So the track description mentions shifting [00:23:15] definitions of value and even of what is human. What's [00:23:20] a real concrete shift you've seen inside an organisation that made that feel [00:23:25] tangible rather than abstract? [00:23:29] Itziar: To be [00:23:30] fair, I haven't seen in the organisations where I've been working [00:23:34] Gerry Scullion: mm-hmm. [00:23:34] Itziar: A [00:23:35] very tangible change of that. [00:23:38] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:23:38] Itziar: What I've seen [00:23:40] is organisations like, I, I have to be [00:23:45] a fair, because I, like in my latest [00:23:50] engagement, I was working at a, a very slow organisation. [00:23:53] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:23:53] Itziar: Like a, a very [00:23:55] traditional organisation, more than 150 years old. So I wasn't working [00:24:00] at a, at a AI native startup where you can actually see [00:24:05] these change. [00:24:05] Itziar: And, uh, and at the frontier of that, I was in an organisation that was [00:24:10] basically last year started to fully pull for, [00:24:15] uh, or push for everyone adopting ai. Yeah. And, and, and starting [00:24:20] to really rethink the way they work. [00:24:22] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:24:23] Itziar: So I [00:24:25] made my perspective might be completely biassed. [00:24:27] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:24:27] Gerry Scullion: But what I see is that [00:24:30] organisations now are trying to navigate this and they, they're [00:24:35] focusing on how to a, [00:24:40] get a lot of savings from the application of ai. [00:24:44] Gerry Scullion: [00:24:45] And even last year we were already working, for example, on what can we [00:24:50] made more of cell service versus what needs to still be human touch [00:24:55] and where, in which situations that are like the least possible because the human touch costs a [00:25:00] lot. Where do you really need to keep the [00:25:05] human touch? For example, I was working at an insurance company, so it, it's not [00:25:10] a blanket thing. [00:25:11] Itziar: Like for example, it's very different if you are claiming your [00:25:15] insurance because your husband died versus claiming your insurance because you lost [00:25:20] your phone. [00:25:21] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:25:21] Itziar: Like, and maybe losing your phone is also distressful [00:25:25] for a lot of people, but it's not as much [00:25:26] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:25:27] Itziar: As if you lose your partner or your parent.[00:25:30] [00:25:30] Gerry Scullion: So like we were really like going deeper into, [00:25:35] well what are, what situations really need human versus [00:25:40] how can you deal with a lot more self-service? And that the [00:25:45] self-service can go across channels without losing a [00:25:50] context and, and, and, uh, and making it possible [00:25:55] for people to navigate the interaction. [00:25:58] Itziar: And I think a lot of companies, [00:26:00] they're possibly more advanced than us, but this is what they are trying [00:26:05] to do. [00:26:05] Gerry Scullion: Mm-hmm. [00:26:06] Itziar: And maybe for other businesses, the human touch is [00:26:10] a little bit less. [00:26:11] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:26:13] Itziar: Critical. [00:26:14] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:26:14] Itziar: [00:26:15] But, and this is where the, for example, the conversational design comes [00:26:20] in place. So how can you make technology sound human and understanding and [00:26:25] empathetic? [00:26:26] Gerry Scullion: Yeah, [00:26:27] Itziar: and, and I have a lot of. [00:26:30] [00:26:31] Gerry Scullion: I mean, the relationship [00:26:32] Itziar: conflicted ideas about that. Like maybe [00:26:35] like should, should we make technology sound empathetic and human? [00:26:40] Or should we acknowledge that this is a technology and you are aware that you're dealing [00:26:45] with a machine even though it is better than the machines we have now? [00:26:48] Itziar: Because we have a lot of dump [00:26:50] chats Absolutely. That are really annoying. [00:26:52] Gerry Scullion: I mean, that shifting definitions of [00:26:55] value is, is a big term. Like, like value. [00:27:00] You know, 10 years ago in businesses was like, okay, we, we made some profit. Like [00:27:05] that's, there's, there's a value there, but the value has shifted. It's definitely [00:27:10] shifted with a lot of the clients that I work with, disclaimer are social impact, [00:27:15] uh, local governments or, you know, federal governments. [00:27:18] Gerry Scullion: Whatever [00:27:20] value for them is making sure that people, you know, get their jobs done, get their [00:27:25] tasks completed. Uh, so outcome driven, innovation, um, [00:27:29] Itziar: yeah. [00:27:30] [00:27:30] Gerry Scullion: And even what is human? I mean like human anymore, [00:27:35] if we distil our humanness into a machine, does it [00:27:40] make it any more human or any less human than it not [00:27:45] being there? [00:27:45] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. So it, it's, man, it's a deep question when you [00:27:50] look into it at a deeper level. So I, I think we've, we've given it a good [00:27:55] stab is what I'm saying. I think [00:27:57] Itziar: what I'm, yeah. What I'm saying is that we lived so many [00:28:00] things [00:28:00] Itziar: Yeah. [00:28:00] Itziar: And unanswered, and we could stay the whole podcast just with [00:28:05] these questions [00:28:05] Gerry Scullion: about one question alone [00:28:06] Itziar: and [00:28:07] Gerry Scullion: some of these, [00:28:08] Gerry Scullion: but for example, [00:28:09] Gerry Scullion: to some of the other [00:28:10] people that, [00:28:10] Itziar: just to, just to comment on, on the two things that you opened.[00:28:15] [00:28:15] Itziar: Uh, I also worked, uh, in my past a lot with, uh, government [00:28:20] and, and non-for-profits. And I think there the difference is not related [00:28:25] with AI versus not ai. [00:28:27] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:28:27] Itziar: It is related with the, the shared [00:28:30] definition of what is value. And these organisations, these [00:28:35] organisations, the definition of value is more related with the impact that I can create. [00:28:39] Itziar: Yet sometimes [00:28:40] it can be like, with the same resources, can I create more impact? [00:28:43] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:28:44] Itziar: Or am I [00:28:45] sure that the impact that I'm creating is the one that I wanted to For [00:28:48] Gerry Scullion: sure. [00:28:48] Itziar: Like, am I really [00:28:50] following my theory of change? [00:28:51] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:28:51] Itziar: So, but that's very different from [00:28:55] companies where primarily there is a side of, am I [00:29:00] doing my mission and, and, and am I really, uh, managing to do [00:29:05] what I want? [00:29:05] Itziar: And there is a side of companies that always wants to like do this [00:29:10] sustainably or in a, in a very, um, respectful way [00:29:15] for humans. But there's also sides of big companies that are [00:29:20] maximising for profit. [00:29:21] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:29:21] Itziar: Whatever that means. Or minimising for cost. [00:29:24] Gerry Scullion: [00:29:25] Okay. [00:29:25] Itziar: And. And that is a, that is the biggest difference, I think.[00:29:30] [00:29:30] Itziar: Uh, and about the humanness, that's what I was saying is like, do [00:29:35] we, like, I, I always have this, [00:29:40] uh, question like, should we try to make, because when we had [00:29:45] a like interaction design in the early two [00:29:50] thousands Yeah. We were aiming to create websites and after that apps [00:29:55] that treated you like a human. [00:29:56] Itziar: Yeah. [00:29:57] Itziar: And it was very clear, we want to make this [00:30:00] technology. More like kind and [00:30:05] empathetic towards you, but now when the technology can be already so [00:30:10] confusing for everyone, like, am I speaking with a technology and [00:30:15] does this technology have a conscience? And are they aware? Are they, do they have [00:30:20] feelings? When you have all of that unstable, do, should we still [00:30:25] aim for making the, the technology seem more and more human? [00:30:28] Itziar: Or should we, [00:30:30] uh, make sure that, that it is clear for people when they're dealing with a human [00:30:35] versus when they're dealing with [00:30:36] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:30:36] Itziar: With the technology? And I don't have an [00:30:40] answer to that, I just have the question. [00:30:41] Gerry Scullion: No, they're big, they're big questions. And as a result, they're big [00:30:45] answers. So, um, definitely. [00:30:47] Gerry Scullion: So all of these, by the way, we're aiming [00:30:50] to, to get a better understanding of the, the lots of types of [00:30:55] answers at this, this event in Barcelona in October, I should add as well. And let's do a few [00:31:00] more of these questions. Okay. We'll try and get through as many of them as possible. Uh, you talk about moving [00:31:05] teams from reactive to strategically equipped. [00:31:08] Gerry Scullion: What does a [00:31:10] strategically equipped service design team actually look like day to day, [00:31:15] and what are they doing differently? [00:31:17] Itziar: Differently? So I have to say that in this [00:31:20] case, your ai, uh, got it wrong because we never talked about each [00:31:25] [00:31:26] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:31:26] Itziar: We talked about, eh, we talked about [00:31:30] people like, uh, and, and it connects with what I said at the beginning. [00:31:33] Itziar: We did this research, [00:31:35] we realised that a lot of people are feeling that they have to be reacting. It's like, [00:31:40] okay, now I, I got into LinkedIn, I realise that this is the latest, uh, [00:31:45] whatever release from a open AI or anthropic, and now I [00:31:50] have to learn how to do agent. Or now I have to learn how to create a harness, and now I have to [00:31:55] learn. [00:31:55] Itziar: And now there's, uh, this new like, let's say cloud design and, [00:32:00] and everybody's feeling that they have to be reacting to what [00:32:05] technology is offering. [00:32:05] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:32:06] Itziar: But what's, uh, because they risk [00:32:10] being left behind. And amazingly you can see that in [00:32:15] people that are in like very old traditional organisations that are possibly [00:32:20] left behind for real. [00:32:21] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:32:21] Itziar: But you can see that also with the people that are at the, like [00:32:25] at the top, uh, most like AI native, uh, [00:32:30] organisations. And they feel the same. [00:32:31] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:32:32] Itziar: So what we want to do with the [00:32:35] conference is help people move from these. Reactive mode where I, [00:32:40] I am constantly feeling that I have to be, uh, reeducating myself [00:32:45] continuously without even paying attention to, does this really apply to me? [00:32:49] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:32:49] Itziar: Is [00:32:50] this something that I need to use and that I need to use tomorrow or otherwise I'm out of the [00:32:55] market. [00:32:55] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:32:56] Itziar: And what does really offer value to me, [00:33:00] to my role, to my profile, and how do I actually acquire [00:33:05] whatever is new, making sense to, to, [00:33:10] to what I'm trying to do and not just following [00:33:13] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:33:13] Itziar: Uh, stuff.[00:33:15] [00:33:15] Itziar: And I think that's very important for our mental health and sanity, [00:33:19] Gerry Scullion: [00:33:20] but also for the craft, but also for, [00:33:22] Itziar: yes. [00:33:22] Gerry Scullion: You know, who people we serve as and [00:33:25] our clients and our, our people that we design for. Um, [00:33:30] so there's a few other ones here that, um, I'm gonna pull in, which is, which is from track two, [00:33:35] the future of our practise. [00:33:37] Gerry Scullion: Let's talk about the field in motion. [00:33:40] Where do you see service design creating the most value today? And where, if you're brutally [00:33:45] frank, is it struggling or losing ground? [00:33:49] Itziar: [00:33:50] So many things here. Um, I think service design [00:33:55] is still creating the most value in, in, I [00:34:00] would say the alignment. [00:34:01] Itziar: Yeah. [00:34:03] Itziar: Part, like if, if [00:34:05] you think about it, what we do a lot is we are a bit of glue between [00:34:10] others in organisations and we help, uh, people understand [00:34:15] others' perspectives while you are creating a new service or while you are making like, [00:34:20] collective learnings of okay, understanding what's happening and a [00:34:25] and making decisions about it. [00:34:27] Gerry Scullion: Mm-hmm. [00:34:28] Itziar: And I think this is still [00:34:30] relevant no matter what. And the more, the cheaper it becomes to, [00:34:35] to build the stuff, the more important it is to still keep [00:34:40] these alignment and have these moments of, of understanding and reflecting, okay, why are we [00:34:45] doing this? Does this really create value? And, and [00:34:50] all of these teams that, that, for whom it's this very deep to create [00:34:55] stuff, are we, are we diverging, are we creating even more, uh, [00:35:00] like noise and, and, and friction for our customers or for our [00:35:05] citizens? [00:35:05] Itziar: Or are we, uh, really helping and, and filling the gaps [00:35:10] and, and, and finally, uh, building the things that we've, we [00:35:15] always wanted to build for the past 10 years and we never had the, the capacity to do it. [00:35:20] And I think that's really important and that's where the value of services design might be at the moment.[00:35:25] [00:35:25] Itziar: And in the near future, [00:35:27] Gerry Scullion: where do you think [00:35:27] Itziar: it's disease struggling? [00:35:30] Is this losing ground? [00:35:31] Gerry Scullion: Like what areas? [00:35:34] Itziar: Yeah, [00:35:34] Gerry Scullion: it's got me [00:35:35] thinking, you know, where do you think it's losing ground? [00:35:40] [00:35:40] Itziar: Oh, many, many areas. I, I think we [00:35:45] were, and this is gonna be a, a, a reflection also on one of your [00:35:50] previous episodes, but I think as service designers, I always found it [00:35:55] very weird because we acted like the world or collectively acted like the world had [00:36:00] just started yesterday. [00:36:01] Gerry Scullion: And, and everyone else that was [00:36:05] like discipline had been dealing with the same problem for a hundred years. [00:36:09] Itziar: Yeah. [00:36:10] [00:36:10] Gerry Scullion: That had no value at all. So we would approach as we have to [00:36:15] reinvent the whole wheel all the time, and we come here with a completely naive [00:36:20] perspective on what the problems are, what we can achieve through services and [00:36:25] through a few workshops and a little bit of research here and there. [00:36:28] Itziar: And, [00:36:30] and to be fair, this has led us to also lose a lot of [00:36:35] credibility. [00:36:35] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:36:36] Itziar: With, with many serious matters that are [00:36:40] obviously not solved, eh, in a simple way. [00:36:45] And what we need to do, and this is, this is like, brings me to, [00:36:50] to that, that postcard that you need with Ben Reason where [00:36:55] you talked about, well, the, like the hippie version of service design versus the punk version [00:37:00] of service design. [00:37:01] Itziar: And, and I think we need to enter into this punk moment. [00:37:04] Gerry Scullion: [00:37:05] Yeah. [00:37:05] Itziar: We're still here for a reason. We're still here to, [00:37:10] to transform things, organisations. I, I don't think we should say, [00:37:15] okay. Well now just here to make sure that we connect the, the little dots [00:37:20] and channels. Well, there is a reason behind that and we shouldn't [00:37:25] lose. [00:37:26] Itziar: That perspective, but [00:37:30] we need to approach this in a very different way. Yeah. We need to recognise that [00:37:35] the world was not born yesterday. That the people that are in our, [00:37:40] in the room with us are actually experts in their own fields and they have a lot to say [00:37:45] and, and maybe in their disciplines there is a lot of value [00:37:50] and you need to acknowledge all of that. [00:37:52] Itziar: Yeah. You're, you're sometimes like a terrorist, [00:37:55] even when you're in part of the organisation. You're not, like I always, I always talked when [00:38:00] I was working in the insurance company that there was the real insurance people [00:38:05] and then there with us that Well, yes, you, you, you, you [00:38:10] learn a lot about how an insurance business work. [00:38:13] Itziar: Yeah. But you never [00:38:15] like a, like an actuary or like a risk engineer or [00:38:20] like, or an underwriter and, and you need to acknowledge that they [00:38:25] have a perspective that you don't fully understand. [00:38:28] Gerry Scullion: True. Absolutely [00:38:30] true. [00:38:30] Itziar: And I think for that, we need to, we need to get into [00:38:35] this ground to understand okay, there is other people. [00:38:39] Gerry Scullion: And also at [00:38:40] the same time, a big reflection that I've been doing lately is that we still look [00:38:45] ourselves as a, from the agency mode, traditionally design has [00:38:50] been an external thing to organisations and we still see ourselves as a little bit like [00:38:55] this alien thing. And we are waiting for the organisation to come with [00:39:00] a brief to us. [00:39:01] Itziar: Mm-hmm. [00:39:01] Itziar: To tell us what they want us to do. And I [00:39:05] think we need to evolve into becoming a part of the [00:39:10] organisation and becoming an actor there that is not [00:39:15] passively waiting. Yeah. But that has also its own a [00:39:20] its own agenda there. Yeah, [00:39:23] Gerry Scullion: absolutely. [00:39:25] Um, some really good points in that. Like, and again, all of these could be episodes on their own.[00:39:30] [00:39:30] Gerry Scullion: Uh, I'm, I'm gonna move on to Yeah. It's the second question of the future of our practise. Because I know [00:39:35] from personal experience of coaching designers, this is the one that [00:39:40] where people are like going, have I just qualified into a, an industry that's about to [00:39:45] leave and exit? Um, yeah. So I know this is the one that I, I, I'm kind of [00:39:50] probably most interested in myself. [00:39:52] Gerry Scullion: Uh, the track invite people to take a position. [00:39:55] Uh, what do you believe service design should fight for right now? Uh, and what [00:40:00] does risk losing if it doesn't? [00:40:05] [00:40:05] Itziar: Yeah. So I was, uh, [00:40:10] I think this is a question that I think each individual designer needs [00:40:15] to answer for themselves. I think, uh, I do have my [00:40:20] own personal answer and I can share it of course, but I think also there [00:40:25] is a point where you need to decide for yourself. [00:40:27] Itziar: Yeah. [00:40:28] Gerry Scullion: And not all answers need to [00:40:30] be the same. And that's also, I think that I observe a lot. And that's why when you [00:40:35] were, uh, like, uh, atrociously, [00:40:40] pronunciated, the, the, the, the names of our [00:40:45] speakers [00:40:45] Gerry Scullion: deeply offended there. It's deeply offended. [00:40:48] Itziar: Sorry. [00:40:50] But Well then I do the same with your language. So [00:40:54] Itziar: yeah.[00:40:55] [00:40:55] Gerry Scullion: Here it is. But, um, when, when you would, with a list of [00:41:00] speakers, there is a lot of variety there. Yeah. 'cause I don't think there is one service [00:41:05] design at the moment, or one, um, one [00:41:10] answer to what service design needs to be doing. Yeah. I see a lot of different, let's say [00:41:15] souls or different approaches and they're all valid. [00:41:18] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:41:18] Itziar: But you need to decide [00:41:20] where you stand. I think we came from a kind of like an initial [00:41:25] definition. Probably it wasn't, uh, as solid in the beginning either, but we [00:41:30] converged into something and we are re diverging. We have people in our [00:41:35] advisory board or in our, um, in our speakers that are [00:41:40] coming very much from the position of, Hey, you are a cog in this organisation. [00:41:44] Gerry Scullion: The [00:41:45] organisation is trying to make money. That's what you do. You make the organisation make more money. [00:41:50] There is people that are coming and, and with more of a perspective of, well, you [00:41:55] are actually, uh, a force to transform organisations and you [00:42:00] need to make organisations become more human, become more, [00:42:05] uh, sustainable. [00:42:07] Itziar: And the, the opportunity and what you [00:42:10] don't need to lose is that [00:42:12] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:42:12] Itziar: What I, and what I personally [00:42:15] want people to come and do at the conference is hear these different [00:42:20] positions and, and look also at themselves. We have some people that [00:42:25] run sessions also about like the self-reflection of [00:42:30] Okay, everything that I'm hearing, it's not just like inspiring. [00:42:34] Itziar: It is a [00:42:35] reflection that I need to do and I need to position myself here. I need to decide [00:42:40] where I want to be. Do I want to be inside of an organisation or I [00:42:45] want to be outside? Do I want to be pushing for change or do I want to help [00:42:50] maintain the status quo and make it a little bit better? [00:42:52] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:42:53] Itziar: Do I, what is the pace of [00:42:55] change that I see my organisation doing? [00:42:58] Itziar: Am I, am [00:43:00] I, am I in an organisation that can transform really fast or am I something that it's [00:43:05] will be. One millimetre at a time. [00:43:07] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:43:08] Itziar: Uh, am I, [00:43:10] eh, am I aiming to do this, for example, from the perspective of [00:43:15] a customer journey management? [00:43:17] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:43:17] Itziar: That is, uh, like a lot more [00:43:20] strategic and a lot about, eh, inserting. [00:43:24] Itziar: The, [00:43:25] the, the human and the service, uh, perspective throughout the organisation, [00:43:30] connecting with the rest, making decisions that are strategic. And I want to be [00:43:35] driving that, or I want to still be in the, like, let let people come to [00:43:40] me and I will do, respond to you, to the briefs of the business or [00:43:45] my clients. [00:43:46] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:43:46] Itziar: Like there is a lot of tensions [00:43:50] that are currently happening in the field and it is worth exploring those and [00:43:55] understanding, well, [00:43:55] Gerry Scullion: yeah, [00:43:56] Itziar: where do I personally fit in this? [00:43:59] Gerry Scullion: [00:44:00] So we've got time for one more question. Okay. And I'm gonna pull it from the [00:44:05] third track, which is on the website, uh, which is our individual [00:44:10] paths forward. [00:44:11] Gerry Scullion: Now, for a designer listening right now who feels the ground shifting under [00:44:15] them, unclear which skills count, which roles will still exist, [00:44:20] what's the first step you tell them to take, to move from reflection [00:44:25] to decision? [00:44:27] Itziar: Well, the first step is coming to [00:44:30] services Undisrupted. [00:44:34] Itziar: But other than [00:44:35] that, [00:44:35] Gerry Scullion: anyone listen to this podcast, right? Come to this event. Okay. For [00:44:40] if no other reason, I would love to meet you. Okay. Right. I'd love to [00:44:45] connect in Barona Yes. With my most likely [00:44:50] mildly sunburned face in Barcelona. Okay. [00:44:54] Itziar: Can happen. [00:44:55] Yes, [00:44:55] Gerry Scullion: it can happen. Um, but yeah, so back to your point, take, go [00:45:00] to the event, right? [00:45:01] Gerry Scullion: Is, is, [00:45:01] Itziar: yes, [00:45:02] Gerry Scullion: it's you, you're saying go to the event, but what else can, can they do [00:45:05] to, to take that first step? [00:45:07] Itziar: And I think that first step is, [00:45:10] is reflecting like first, first understanding, okay, what are the forces that are [00:45:15] currently compressing opening opportunities? Where, where is the field [00:45:20] shrinking? Like by the forces? [00:45:21] Itziar: Where are the things shrinking? Where are the things opening and [00:45:25] understanding, okay, with this shape, what can the field do? [00:45:30] Like what can service design? What is the role of service design today [00:45:35] and tomorrow? And then with me, my history, [00:45:40] my interests, what I, what what I've done in the past that has shaped [00:45:45] my, my view and my skills, the, and what I [00:45:50] see for the future and the skills that I can acquire, where I can [00:45:55] position myself, and where is it like a place where I would like to be that [00:46:00] is viable for me to be, that there will be some kind of means of [00:46:05] leaving, not to mention business, like some, somewhere where I can make a living out of these [00:46:10] field. [00:46:10] Itziar: Or in a different field because a completely possibility possible, [00:46:15] uh, answer to that is like, I'm leaving, I'm leaving. I'm not staying in here. And, [00:46:20] and, uh, yeah. You're welcome to arrive to this conclusion as well. [00:46:24] Gerry Scullion: [00:46:25] Yeah. [00:46:25] Itziar: And, uh, and or, and what would make me [00:46:30] happy? What would make make me, what would be fulfilling for [00:46:35] me? [00:46:35] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:46:35] Itziar: Because right now I see a lot of service designers that have lost purpose, [00:46:40] that are still going through the motions, but, but [00:46:45] they don't see a, a, an impact of their work Yeah. In their [00:46:50] organisations. True. They are super pressured to deliver at paces [00:46:55] that uh, I think you mentioned it before at some point. [00:46:58] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:46:58] Itziar: That sometimes [00:47:00] people are doing a lot, for example, from agency, I see these a lot, that you're doing a lot with [00:47:05] AI because you have such pressure to deliver fast. [00:47:08] Gerry Scullion: Absolutely. [00:47:08] Itziar: They, at one point you can't [00:47:10] even defend your own slides. [00:47:12] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:47:13] Itziar: And that's not, that's, [00:47:15] that's bad for the clients that are buying, but that's also bad for the people that are producing this.[00:47:20] [00:47:20] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:47:20] Itziar: That's not the way you want to work. It's not fulfilling, it's not interesting. [00:47:24] Gerry Scullion: [00:47:25] Yeah. [00:47:25] Itziar: It's, it's, so how do you, how, how do you want to get [00:47:30] out of these situations and you need to rebuild your value [00:47:35] proposition. We have also a session about, for example, the future of agency, like in [00:47:40] terms of business model and, and everything. [00:47:42] Itziar: We have a panels around the [00:47:45] future skills, uh, for service designers around the path [00:47:50] to leadership and what does it mean to be a leader in service design at the moment. [00:47:55] So we want to bring a, a lot of conversations that will help [00:48:00] people reflect where they are, where they want to be, and [00:48:05] how to make their work as fulfilling and as interesting as it was when we got in [00:48:10] the field. [00:48:10] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:48:11] Itziar: I dunno, what was your experience? But when I got into service, I, I [00:48:15] felt like, oh, finally I found what I was [00:48:17] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:48:17] Itziar: Meant to be doing. [00:48:19] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:48:20] [00:48:20] Itziar: I, I would like to continue feeling like that. [00:48:23] Gerry Scullion: Absolutely. [00:48:23] Itziar: And I would like everyone to feel like [00:48:25] that again. [00:48:26] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So [00:48:30] folks, I hope we've given you an overview. [00:48:31] Gerry Scullion: It's not just a typical event. It's kind of like a [00:48:35] call, call to arms in some way, come to Barcelona, [00:48:40] get to hang out, get to learn, get to put your own perspective into [00:48:45] these, um, questions and, and potential answers as well. So I'd [00:48:50] love to see there. It's here. I'd love to see there any questions. [00:48:53] Itziar: Exactly. [00:48:54] Gerry Scullion: You [00:48:55] know what to do. [00:48:55] Gerry Scullion: It's here is links for social LinkedIn and, and so [00:49:00] forth in the website. Um, we do have a discount code. Is it, is it okay if I share [00:49:05] the discount code? Yes, it is. Yeah. Okay. [00:49:06] Itziar: Absolutely. [00:49:07] Gerry Scullion: So I've got my own discount code and because I feel [00:49:10] like my list are my friends, um, they're, and you are, um, I'm gonna put that [00:49:15] discount code in the show notes so you can use it and get some [00:49:20] money off and put that towards a nice meal potentially in Barcelona. [00:49:24] Itziar: [00:49:25] Exactly. [00:49:25] Gerry Scullion: So look, it's your I know, [00:49:26] Itziar: and to be fair with that, we are [00:49:30] still on a, an early bird. So your discount code now [00:49:34] Itziar: Yeah. [00:49:34] Itziar: Would [00:49:35] go on top of the early bird. So until the 31st of July. So you, you have [00:49:40] these roughly a week to get the best price you can get for these conference. [00:49:45] [00:49:45] Gerry Scullion: Well, we'll get this out, this, uh, podcast out as quickly as possible. [00:49:48] Gerry Scullion: Then we'll get it edited today. [00:49:50] So it's your, uh oh, [00:49:51] Itziar: sorry. Yeah, I just put a lot of pressure on [00:49:53] Gerry Scullion: you. No, no, it's okay. We'll, we'll, we'll, [00:49:55] we'll do that. But before we wrap up, I just wanted to wish you a very happy birthday. Um, it's here was 21 [00:50:00] again. [00:50:00] Itziar: Thank you. [00:50:00] Gerry Scullion: Um, the other day. Yes, [00:50:01] Itziar: exactly [00:50:02] Gerry Scullion: 21 again. Um, which must make you [00:50:05] about 24 at this stage. [00:50:06] Gerry Scullion: So very happy birthday from everyone and all the [00:50:10] listeners and we're looking forward to celebrating with you in Barcelona in October. [00:50:15] Um, the dates for the event, by the way folks, if you're looking for it, is October the 15th and 16th. [00:50:20] I may be doing a workshop the day before, um, on the Wednesday, which is October the 14th [00:50:25] in Barcelona, start of Barcelona Design Week. [00:50:28] Gerry Scullion: Um, still chatting about that. [00:50:30] Hopefully we can make it happen. Um, but it's here. Thank you so much for giving me your time today. I really enjoyed [00:50:35] speaking with you. [00:50:36] Itziar: Yeah, thank you for inviting me here. It [00:50:40] was really nice to chat with you. And also thank you for helping us talk about [00:50:45] service and disrupt [00:50:50] it.