Experience the Power of Liminal Coaching with Mike Parker

[00:00:00] Gerry Scullion: Hey everyone, it's Jerry here and today, and this is HCD. We're doing something a little different. [00:00:05] I'm joined by my long-term collaborator, Mike Parker for Founder of Liminal Coaching, [00:00:10] and someone I've personally worked with and benefited from hugely. I. Now Mike [00:00:15] helps people access the creative power of their subconscious, [00:00:20] not through meditation or the traditional sense, but through what he calls liminal coaching.

[00:00:24] Gerry Scullion: [00:00:25] That's something that I pay Mike for personally as well myself. 'cause I find it so, so [00:00:30] empowering and rewarding. So he leans, uh. It's grounded in science. [00:00:35] So one of my initial kind of thoughts about this was like, okay, is this something [00:00:40] that's not really grounded in science, but it truly is grounded in science and it's especially [00:00:45] relevant for people working in high pressure roles like design strategy or leadership.[00:00:50]

[00:00:50] Gerry Scullion: I. Now in this episode, we explore the power of the default mode network [00:00:55] and how daydreaming is far from idle, and how moments of intentional drift [00:01:00] can unlock creative breakthroughs. I recall many instances over my life [00:01:05] in this episode where I might be in the shower and I've got this idea, and that's the subconscious [00:01:10] coming into the forefront of our brain and giving us those opportunities to tap into that world.

[00:01:14] Gerry Scullion: [00:01:15] It is for the first time ever in this podcast, Mike shares a live liminal moment [00:01:20] session that you can follow along with as well. So if you're listening, find a quiet spot. [00:01:25] Let it wash over you. You don't wanna miss this because basically I'm taking a live session [00:01:30] with Mike. I. And we get to experience how I actually experience those things.[00:01:35]

[00:01:35] Gerry Scullion: So there's three key takeaways from this episode that I want you to think about. One is [00:01:40] intentional daydreaming. It is productive. Okay? For too long in [00:01:45] schools, we've been told stop, daydreaming, focus on the task at hand. That was the case when I was in school. [00:01:50] I'm sure it probably hasn't changed too much, but really, daydreaming is productive when it's used [00:01:55] correctly, and when we allow ourselves to drift, like staring at the window or floating or water, we [00:02:00] activate the brain's default mode network, a state linked to problem solving and [00:02:05] creativity.

[00:02:05] Gerry Scullion: Number two, you can train yourself to access liminality tools like liminal, [00:02:10] Pomodoro. Courage Microb breaks throughout the day to reconnect with your subconscious, [00:02:15] especially helpful for anyone navigating complex challenges or creative roadblocks. [00:02:20] And number three, liminal coaching isn't woo or quack.

[00:02:23] Gerry Scullion: It's rooted in cognitive science [00:02:25] and used by leaders and teams across industries. The live session, what Mike [00:02:30] shares just proves how accessible and impactful this approach can be. If this [00:02:35] episode resonated with you, I'd love to, uh, have you explore liminal coaching yourself, [00:02:40] but also I'd love you to check out my free five day email course.

[00:02:44] Gerry Scullion: It's designed [00:02:45] to help you kickstart a human centered service design approach within your organization. It's free. [00:02:50] Just head over to this is HCD to sign up. Thanks for tuning in and let's get straight into this episode at [00:02:55] Mike.[00:03:00] [00:03:05]

[00:03:05] Gerry Scullion: So Mike, Mike Parker. Um, I'm, I'm delighted to have you on the, the podcast we've had [00:03:10] you on before. For any longtime listeners, um, the name Mike Parker will be synonymous [00:03:15] with liminality. Uh, we did a great conversation about [00:03:20] exploring that a little bit more, and the role of that can have and positive impact for [00:03:25] change makers and people working in.

[00:03:29] Gerry Scullion: [00:03:30] Um, but generally speaking, um, I wanna give you a chance to introduce yourself. [00:03:35] Um, how would you describe what you

[00:03:36] Mike Parker: do, Mike?[00:03:40]

[00:03:41] Mike Parker: I would describe it as helping people [00:03:45] to access and take advantage of the [00:03:50] real power of their subconscious and what it can do for [00:03:55] them when they give it half a chance. And I guess I call it liminal [00:04:00] coaching because liminal is about being halfway between one place and another. Yeah. And we [00:04:05] work specifically work with states where people are halfway between [00:04:10] conscious and unconscious in that sort of dreamy half space in [00:04:15] between waking and sleeping.

[00:04:17] Gerry Scullion: There's something beautiful about that when you think about it in [00:04:20] terms of ecosystems as well. It's like the grid edge of, of things that we often [00:04:25] talk about now, liminality and liminal, um, especially liminal [00:04:30] thinking. That book that came out, Dave Gray wrote it. That actually was one of [00:04:35] the books that I kind of pinpoint and why I went off and created this whole other world at this [00:04:40] CD I said.[00:04:45]

[00:04:46] Gerry Scullion: Let's talk about, um, kind of Lim liminal thinking, [00:04:50] the book and liminal coaching. Um, there's a, there's a kind of a [00:04:55] bridge there between yourself and Dave and the book and all of that kinda stuff. [00:05:00]

[00:05:00] Mike Parker: Yeah. Dave was, Dave was in the process of finishing liminal thinking, um, when [00:05:05] I started this business. And, um, he actually volunteered to [00:05:10] be one of the people to, to test drive it.

[00:05:12] Mike Parker: To test drive what I was developing, I was doing [00:05:15] free sessions at the time. Nice. He really liked it and we, we did a lot of [00:05:20] sessions and we spent a lot of time talking about that in between space and talking about [00:05:25] liminal thinking and, yeah. And actually it was his idea. To say, he said, [00:05:30] uh, one afternoon.

[00:05:31] Mike Parker: Why don't you call it liminal coaching? 'cause it's, that's the right [00:05:35] exactly what we're doing. Yeah. So, yeah, why not?

[00:05:39] Gerry Scullion: So, I, I [00:05:40] wanna speak from my own perspective. Um, 'cause like I, I have sessions with Mike and [00:05:45] I endorse. You know, the, the, the practice and, and what it's given [00:05:50] me. We're gonna explore that a little bit more in this session, Mike.

[00:05:53] Gerry Scullion: Um, if you're open to [00:05:55] it, like I know we've spoken about that stuff before, but generally speaking, [00:06:00] something that you sent me there last week and I was exploring it this [00:06:05] week, so it's still kind of new in my life, whereas I would ask. A [00:06:10] question to myself, like, I want to try and figure out some of these things.

[00:06:14] Gerry Scullion: Some of them [00:06:15] could be like you might've seen, I launched the Human centered design directory. [00:06:20] This, this whole practice. I wanted to do that, but I didn't know what my first step should be and I asked [00:06:25] that as a question. That was maybe a couple of weeks ago, and I turned on [00:06:30] the, uh, session with Mike, an audio, audio playing, [00:06:35] and myself to slip.

[00:06:38] Gerry Scullion: Space, which we all have, [00:06:40] we all have the potential to get into that head space. The only way I can describe it, Mike, [00:06:45] and tell me if I'm wrong, I sometimes feel that way when, uh, [00:06:50] I'm in the sea. Okay. Like, so, uh, the, when I lived in Australia, [00:06:55] I would, I'd regularly try and get into the sea and I would go under the waves for.[00:07:00] [00:07:05]

[00:07:05] Gerry Scullion: And exploring, you know, that kind of texture [00:07:10] and that whole kind of sense of when you're under the waves, that's what it, what it [00:07:15] feels like for me. And then I can come up for air when I choose. So it's like a [00:07:20] form of meditation. Um, but nearly always when I flow [00:07:25] into that subconscious, the answer arrives.

[00:07:28] Mike Parker: Yeah, [00:07:30] it's interesting. You should say it's like a form of meditation, I guess you could say it is. But [00:07:35] most meditation requires active cognitive [00:07:40] focus, so you're actually con concentrating on your breathing or a particular image or [00:07:45] something. But the kind of state you are talking about, I, I often call it the drift.[00:07:50]

[00:07:50] Gerry Scullion: Okay.

[00:07:51] Mike Parker: Um, because it's actually you. You're [00:07:55] not controlling it, you're simply allowing things to happen and you're just drifting [00:08:00] there, uh, without thinking about anything in particular. Mm-hmm. And we, we actually [00:08:05] encourage people to develop that as a deliberate [00:08:10] skill, as something that they can do whenever they want to for a few minutes.

[00:08:14] Mike Parker: It's very, [00:08:15] it's exactly the same as daydreaming when you're staring out the window, eyes glazed over. [00:08:20] What's actually happening a lot of the time [00:08:25] is that a, um, a large neural network in our brain becomes much more [00:08:30] active, the default mode network, as they call it. Mm-hmm. And the default mode [00:08:35] network is responsible for doing a large number of different things, but one of the [00:08:40] things that we do know that it does mm-hmm.

[00:08:42] Mike Parker: Is to come up with innovative ideas and to [00:08:45] solve them to help solve for really complex problems. So it [00:08:50] feels like to you, to us. It feels like, oh yeah, I'm being an [00:08:55] idol. Busted, sitting here not doing anything in particular, staring out of the window. Yeah, but [00:09:00] actually your brain can be using anything up to 20 times as much energy as when you're [00:09:05] in your task focus network, concentrating on something.[00:09:10]

[00:09:10] Gerry Scullion: It's funny because. The people, and this is what we were speaking about at the end of our [00:09:15] last coaching session where my coaches made, we were talking about [00:09:20] organizational leaders who actually need to be in that mindset. [00:09:25] We are very often, they're like a rabbit in the headlights or [00:09:30] very reactionary and they're like, you know, do that.

[00:09:32] Gerry Scullion: Do that. Pressure, pressure [00:09:35] emails.

[00:09:39] Gerry Scullion: That [00:09:40] headspace, whereas that critical, that default mode network that we're talking [00:09:45] about where we should be in, especially for processing large amounts of data. Hmm. [00:09:50] Try saying that to an organization where like, you know, like a, like a Meta or a Google [00:09:55] or even LinkedIn where it's all on, on, on, on how, how can [00:10:00] somebody find.

[00:10:03] Gerry Scullion: To, I, I

[00:10:04] Mike Parker: do think there is [00:10:05] some receptivity to, to the, to the reality of that, [00:10:10] um, in the past few years. Okay. So I think it's easier than it was. [00:10:15] Um, but well, what one of the things that we do is that we [00:10:20] provide our clients who are in that kind of situation with a, a printed [00:10:25] exercise thing, which we call liminal Pomodoro.

[00:10:28] Mike Parker: Yeah, and it's a, [00:10:30] a sheet which basically gives a simple exercise of stop every hour, set a timer, stop [00:10:35] every hour, and deliberately daydream for five, five minutes or so, [00:10:40] okay? Mm-hmm. And here is the science [00:10:45] there. There's a couple of extracts and articles referenced from peer reviewed research. [00:10:50] Here's the science which says.

[00:10:52] Mike Parker: If you're trying to solve complex [00:10:55] problems, this is a really, really good thing to do, especially if you're in creative industries. [00:11:00] So they have something to wave at. Anyone who comes past and says, why are you staring [00:11:05] blankly out the window instead of doing something useful? [00:11:10] And the feedback I've had from giving that to people is that it works for them [00:11:15] really, really well.

[00:11:16] Mike Parker: Really well.

[00:11:16] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. It's um, that [00:11:20] liminal Pomo Pomo piece is what we were speaking about. 'cause I practice pomodoro when [00:11:25] I'm up against it. Um, so weaving intentionality [00:11:30] of. Because in, if you use, like, I use Flow, which is a Mac [00:11:35] folks, um, which set my rhythm to be like every [00:11:40] 15 minutes to switching a task. [00:11:45] Go and get a glass of water or something, then come back, um, [00:11:50] versus what my natural state is like, you know, headphones on listening to [00:11:55] some acdc um, aide and really smashing it [00:12:00] out for, you know, four hours.

[00:12:02] Gerry Scullion: You know what I mean? Um, and it's, [00:12:05] it's conflict of that. It's the tension that I'm trying get and more [00:12:10] space for myself. Kinder, kinder to, to myself, [00:12:15] which I, yeah, that's

[00:12:16] Mike Parker: really important actually.

[00:12:17] Gerry Scullion: Mm-hmm. Because I treat, [00:12:20] I'm trying to treat myself and that's with a capital SI guess, um, better. [00:12:25] Um, and by four hours sitting here with a CDC, Scots screaming into my [00:12:30] ears, um, as much as it is, uh.[00:12:35]

[00:12:37] Gerry Scullion: I need to give myself a break and just have day [00:12:40] daydreaming piece.

[00:12:41] Mike Parker: Yeah, I think that's good. I,

[00:12:43] Gerry Scullion: yeah, [00:12:45] so we wanted to try something a little bit different in this podcast. Like, well, whatcha open [00:12:50] to doing because, um, I know a number of the people that I, you know, call [00:12:55] collaborators in my ecosystem, um, in this CD have [00:13:00] reached out and gone through the liminal.[00:13:05]

[00:13:06] Gerry Scullion: We wanna do something a little bit different on this episode, so whatcha open [00:13:10] to, to sharing with the audience

[00:13:11] Mike Parker: we've been working on looking at how [00:13:15] can we actually, uh, try to give people the [00:13:20] benefit of the, a lot of the effect of, uh, one of our [00:13:25] guided relaxations, which generally tend to be 20 to 20. Oh, nice.

[00:13:29] Mike Parker: [00:13:30] In. Okay, so we've been developing this [00:13:35] idea of, of what we call a liminal moment, which is about, uh, six or seven [00:13:40] minutes. Mm-hmm. And it actually contains the, all the [00:13:45] core ideas and metaphors of the full length guided [00:13:50] relaxation, but you can use it just for six or seven minutes and, um, [00:13:55] been great so far.

[00:13:58] Mike Parker: People said, wow.[00:14:00]

[00:14:02] Mike Parker: Effective it is in such a short time. [00:14:05] Um, so I happen to have one here, which we could, we could [00:14:10] do or you could insert the recording and I, we would like to [00:14:15] also give it away to your listeners.

[00:14:17] Gerry Scullion: Alright, nice. We wanna, um, we'll embed it in. So we'll give [00:14:20] the download, but we'll also, um. I'll, I'll turn my camera off, [00:14:25] but I, let's listen to it on live.

[00:14:28] Gerry Scullion: Okay. So we can actually capture my [00:14:30] own kind of, this is like a live coaching session. I don't know if I signed, signed for this one. [00:14:35] Let's do it though. Like, let's, you know if people are listening and, um, they want to hear [00:14:40] it, like we're, we're gonna go through it live. I'll turn my camera off [00:14:45] intentionally.

[00:14:45] Gerry Scullion: Okay.

[00:14:45] Mike Parker: So. Very calming [00:14:50] guided relaxation that we, we give a guided relaxation that we [00:14:55] give away. Um, mm-hmm. When you sign up for the newsletter, we also [00:15:00] give this moment, liminal moment recording away on the website. [00:15:05] And, um, it is designed to really, [00:15:10] really focus on relaxation. So this is the liminal [00:15:15] moment from Drift to peace.

[00:15:19] Mike Parker: [00:15:20] And it's not a meditation and it's not a tool. It's just a moment. It's a [00:15:25] few minutes. We call it a short symbolic portal [00:15:30] to a part of you that is already there, just below the surface,[00:15:35]

[00:15:37] Mike Parker: so you can begin this [00:15:40] exercise simply by relaxing every single muscle as much as you can. [00:15:45] Take a deep, relaxed, easy [00:15:50] breath in breathing from your stomach, and [00:15:55] slowly breathe out and let all tension, stress [00:16:00] and anxiety just drift away from you completely. There's [00:16:05] nothing to do. Just follow.[00:16:10]

[00:16:13] Mike Parker: You find yourself [00:16:15] now floating in a boat in the center of a beautiful [00:16:20] weight. It's very calm and clear. You [00:16:25] can see a simple house of wood on the shore. It's so [00:16:30] quiet here, so very peaceful. [00:16:35] The wind has dropped to almost nothing since you reached the middle of the length. [00:16:40] The water is clear and calm and flat [00:16:45] like a Mel pond.

[00:16:47] Mike Parker: Birds fly high in the [00:16:50] sky. It's comfortably warm and sunny, and you lie [00:16:55] peacefully in your boat just gazing at the view.[00:17:00]

[00:17:01] Mike Parker: You can hear the sound of a bell ringing across the water, [00:17:05] and each note relaxes you more and more. Taking you [00:17:10] deeper and deeper into calm tranquility. [00:17:15] You stretch out in the boat, your head's [00:17:20] on a cushion and just gaze up at the sky. [00:17:25] And as you do, you suddenly know [00:17:30] that you can let go of every bit of stress, every bit [00:17:35] of worry and fear, and.

[00:17:38] Mike Parker: And just let it drift away [00:17:40] from you into the sky, across the water, [00:17:45] and into un being[00:17:50]

[00:17:51] Mike Parker: a lily floats near you. It has [00:17:55] a lovely cent and a light is coming from it across the surface of the [00:18:00] water, and as every fear, worry, and concern, [00:18:05] drift away from you completely. You allow the light from the [00:18:10] living to enter the center of your heart[00:18:15]

[00:18:17] Mike Parker: and in your imagination, [00:18:20] you place one hand gently on your chest knowing that in the [00:18:25] future, this gesture will bring you straight back to [00:18:30] this peaceful, tranquil place.[00:18:35]

[00:18:37] Mike Parker: You feel a great sense of peace and [00:18:40] relaxation sweep through you, and you find you can think more [00:18:45] clearly about what your priorities really are, about what's really [00:18:50] important to you and your life and those you love. You [00:18:55] are looking at what really is the best way to live your life. [00:19:00] Calmly and clearly in control knowing that when you [00:19:05] are calm, you are as in control of yourself and [00:19:10] of your life as you can ever be.[00:19:15]

[00:19:15] Mike Parker: You just drift. Allowing that calmness now to sweep through you [00:19:20] feeling the depth of water beneath the boats, the tranquility of the [00:19:25] scene around you. The occasional splash of a fish, [00:19:30] the calling of a bird, the water lapping gently around the hole. [00:19:35] You breathe in the clear air, the golden light of the [00:19:40] sun filling you from head to toe as you drift here [00:19:45] watching a cloud pass by above you in the sky.[00:19:50]

[00:19:50] Mike Parker: You.[00:19:55]

[00:19:56] Mike Parker: Every last bit of worry, every last fear and [00:20:00] insecurity just spirals out of you. Maybe [00:20:05] like smoke from a bonfire up into the sky [00:20:10] where it dissolves in the clear, pure air and is blown [00:20:15] away to the four quarters of existence never to be seen [00:20:20] again. And in this place. You [00:20:25] can always come to simply let go to breathe, [00:20:30] relax, and allow yourself to flow as you, as the [00:20:35] water flows around you.

[00:20:36] Mike Parker: Now full of that peaceful, calm, [00:20:40] the sun filling you with a great sense of calm and [00:20:45] peace and wellbeing that reaches out into the of [00:20:50] your life, into every dimension.[00:20:55] [00:21:00] [00:21:05] [00:21:10]

[00:21:13] Mike Parker: You let your [00:21:15] awareness gently to.[00:21:20]

[00:21:21] Mike Parker: Drift now. Taking all the [00:21:25] time you need. Just drifting peacefully and easily back to [00:21:30] waking. Feeling grounded and [00:21:35] quietly energized.[00:21:40] [00:21:45]

[00:21:47] Mike Parker: Right. I'm [00:21:50] back. Um,

[00:21:51] Gerry Scullion: it's mad because obviously I spoke about, [00:21:55] um, going under the waves and I was like, back in, [00:22:00] uh, in my mind I was back in Bondi and in Australia where close to where [00:22:05] I lived for a short period. But, um, it struck me [00:22:10] that, say when, when I, I lived overseas, Mike, [00:22:15] especially in. Uh, there was an [00:22:20] inadvertent liminality action happening with a lot of people.

[00:22:23] Gerry Scullion: They were having those [00:22:25] breaks. They were going to the sea, they were hearing these things, and that's what it potentially can [00:22:30] give people. Um, when you live in places where there's no [00:22:35] surfer, there's no kind of, where there's a lack of opportunity to do that. We [00:22:40] need to have some sort of intent to make space for these kind of things, and that that's, it's as, [00:22:45] as similar for me in my own personal reflection is going on under the [00:22:50] waves because that was just like, like, okay, I'm gotta, I know it's a couple of [00:22:55] moments.

[00:22:55] Gerry Scullion: I wasn't under there for minutes like I was under there. I would always feel completely revitalized [00:23:00] when I.[00:23:05]

[00:23:07] Gerry Scullion: Have that's, that's kind what it's [00:23:10] like. And I, meditation over the years to be, [00:23:15] um, pass or fail. Very binary. Give myself. [00:23:20] Followed guided meditation. I was like, oh my God, here's that bloody thought again. [00:23:25] And then I'm like, I failed. I failed. Oh God. Okay. Let's get back into the track. [00:23:30] Okay. I'm at my, I'm, I'm my arm.

[00:23:34] Gerry Scullion: My thoughts are on [00:23:35] my arm. Good job. You're doing a good job following the thought with your arm. Oh, no, no, no. There's [00:23:40] another thought coming in. Oh God. I. Shut up. I'm in middle of a meditation [00:23:45] session and they're the conversations that go on whenever I follow it because, [00:23:50] um, my mind is like, um, like a series of monkeys in the [00:23:55] zoo jumping around at times to time.

[00:23:56] Gerry Scullion: And this way it seems to be much more forgiving. [00:24:00] And yeah, and

[00:24:00] Mike Parker: that's why we always say, we always start out by saying, you know, you don't, [00:24:05] you don't necessarily even have to listen to it.[00:24:10]

[00:24:12] Mike Parker: It just do it thing.

[00:24:14] Gerry Scullion: I remember the first [00:24:15] time I had a session with you, Mike, um, and you, you went, so how [00:24:20] was that? And I was like, oh man. Now I have to say that I, um, I thought this bit of [00:24:25] the was really good. Truthfully, I kind of drifted off in [00:24:30] the middle of it and, um, kind of didn't really listen after.[00:24:35]

[00:24:36] Gerry Scullion: That's allowed. And I was like, oh, of course it's allowed. That's the whole [00:24:40] point of this piece.

[00:24:41] Mike Parker: Yeah.

[00:24:42] Gerry Scullion: So we actually have a,

[00:24:44] Mike Parker: a, a lot of [00:24:45] people, um, who are very, very happy with it all by the way. [00:24:50] Tell me that They've listened to some of the guided [00:24:55] relaxations like 20 or 30 times and they've, they can't remember more than the first [00:25:00] six or.[00:25:05]

[00:25:05] Gerry Scullion: Do you think? Um, I'm just trying to put myself in other shoes. Like, can, [00:25:10] you know, people would be like, yeah, Jerry, but you know, I work for myself. I can take space for [00:25:15] this. And I'm just thinking of people who are working in design teams or innovation teams, or [00:25:20] not even in design teams, but just generally under the pump.

[00:25:23] Gerry Scullion: Mm-hmm. And to be able to [00:25:25] ask for that. It, it's like one, ask for permission, but then two, also [00:25:30] it's speaking this stuff seen as. [00:25:35] Out there and the organization might reward [00:25:40] that, if that makes sense, that kind of thing. How, how do [00:25:45] you see, um, more organizations coming to the table on this? Because I know you've got a couple of clients at the [00:25:50] moment.

[00:25:52] Mike Parker: I think this is, this is actually a big part of, [00:25:55] of our mission is to[00:26:00]

[00:26:00] Mike Parker: help people.[00:26:05]

[00:26:05] Mike Parker: How valuable this is for their teams in terms of their increased [00:26:10] productivity. And it's not just increased productivity, but you could also actually [00:26:15] probably reduce the number of sick days, uh, from stress and stuff like that as [00:26:20] well. Yeah. Um, so it's a bit of a, it's a bit of a mission, [00:26:25] um, to explain and to demonstrate, but I find that if.[00:26:30]

[00:26:32] Mike Parker: Demonstrate it, then [00:26:35] it's a no-brainer. Yeah. So we recently did a, [00:26:40] um, we did a, an assessment series of assessment, [00:26:45] uh, sessions for a large PR agency. And we did [00:26:50] 23 one-to-one sessions for all of the whole of their senior exec team [00:26:55] and two group sessions. And at the end of that, um, the [00:27:00] CEO came back to me and said, well, uh.

[00:27:02] Mike Parker: We've just got a hundred percent [00:27:05] approval from everybody for what we've just done. And a hundred [00:27:10] percent of the people who did it say they want to do more of it. Yeah, because it's [00:27:15] so beneficial. So

[00:27:18] Gerry Scullion: like, I know, I [00:27:20] know from personal, so I'm, I am an endorse endorsing this, but [00:27:25] generally speaking, the metrics that are associated with meditation.[00:27:30]

[00:27:30] Gerry Scullion: I think there's a correlation between what we're talking about here. So if, if [00:27:35] people are in organizations and they're looking to speak more openly about bringing this [00:27:40] stuff in. Reduction in sick days, like, you know, [00:27:45] less irritability, more, um, better processing [00:27:50] power, all of this different stuff. I think you can get a lot of that stuff online about the benefits of [00:27:55] meditation for professional people.

[00:27:57] Mike Parker: Yeah.

[00:27:57] Gerry Scullion: Um, but generally speaking, [00:28:00] um, it's just. It, it, it, the bit that I find kind of mystical, uh, I hate [00:28:05] saying that word in this context, but the asking a question and finding [00:28:10] the answer, um, is not wacky. Backy kind of [00:28:15] talk because you know, I've mentioned before, I think I was telling you about the John Clea story of [00:28:20] Faulty Towers where you wrote the first script and then lost.[00:28:25] [00:28:30]

[00:28:31] Gerry Scullion: Is what got made the first series of Faulty Towers. [00:28:35] And he tells the story of finding that that [00:28:40] first script when he was, you know, leaving house, he was divorced and down the [00:28:45] back of the. And what he saw was the difference between he was [00:28:50] now in that ability to be able to reflect. The first script was not as good as the [00:28:55] second script.

[00:28:55] Gerry Scullion: The second script, um, was considerably better. He said it [00:29:00] tied up a lot of the loose ends and the script and all the story arcs were kind of more [00:29:05] rounded and completed. The only thing[00:29:10]

[00:29:10] Gerry Scullion: working on. Those arcs, those [00:29:15] narratives, the story arcs. And that's kind of what I'm [00:29:20] expecting you to probably just say the answer, why this happens. But

[00:29:24] Mike Parker: [00:29:25] yeah, I think, I think that is why it happens. Yeah. Um, it's interesting, you, when [00:29:30] you were talking about asking a question, you reminded me of a story about, uh, there's a very [00:29:35] well respected, very well known, um, neuroscientist.[00:29:40]

[00:29:40] Mike Parker: Who refuse to go public with the fact that when he has, um, [00:29:45] a, a real problem or something that he's working on and he's stuck [00:29:50] with it at some point with his thinking, he will imagine himself [00:29:55] writing it down on a piece of paper, like a, like a letter to his subconscious, [00:30:00] and he'll imagine himself posting it through a letter box, his subconscious before he.[00:30:05]

[00:30:08] Mike Parker: And know what he needs to do next [00:30:10] or what the next step is in the thing that he's trying to develop or the thing he's trying to [00:30:15] investigate. And to me that's really logical because what you're doing is you symbolically [00:30:20] sending a message to your subconscious saying, Hey, give us a hand with this. Yeah.

[00:30:23] Mike Parker: And there's nothing, it likes [00:30:25] better, it says, yeah, sure. Of course. No problem. Here you go. Yeah.[00:30:30]

[00:30:34] Mike Parker: [00:30:35] Embarrassed by doing that. So that they don't want, they don't want to go public about it. [00:30:40]

[00:30:41] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. It's that, that's, that, that itself is strange, [00:30:45] but it does work. I mean, this is what you sometimes hear [00:30:50] people say, oh, the best ideas I have come in the shower. Um, and as a [00:30:55] songwriter in a previous life, I still write songs.

[00:30:58] Gerry Scullion: Um, people would say, [00:31:00] I, it just struck me one day. You know, I was out walking and I had this melody [00:31:05] arrive into my, into my head, like YouTube bono, all of these [00:31:10] Springsteen, they all speak about this, this thing that just runs through them. [00:31:15] Um, when song ideas come to them and it's not left to chance, it's usually [00:31:20] why bands go away to other places that are really chill, like.[00:31:25]

[00:31:28] Gerry Scullion: Can't remember the name of the [00:31:30] last album was, it was Chaos. But anyway, they, they go away so they can actually [00:31:35] slip into this world. And this is one of the secret powers for people [00:31:40] I believe, who are really proactive. Yeah. And, um, can actually [00:31:45] achieve quite a lot. And it's one of the things that I [00:31:50] inadvertently were doing over the last number of years, but now it's much.[00:31:55]

[00:31:58] Mike Parker: I do think [00:32:00] that all of us actually, when we aren't under a [00:32:05] huge amount of stress, and honestly a very negative work [00:32:10] culture has got a lot to do with this problem. Yeah. But normally all of us [00:32:15] would just instinctively and intuitively take those breaks and spend that [00:32:20] time, uh, because it feels good. Yeah.[00:32:25]

[00:32:25] Mike Parker: But then there's this weird, weird kind of Western thing. What if it feels good? [00:32:30] Can't be work, right?[00:32:35]

[00:32:38] Gerry Scullion: That work, work should be hard, [00:32:40] like that whole kinda mindset, like you should be, and a lot of the, the people listening to [00:32:45] this podcast, you know, are absolutely working night and day. I, I know a [00:32:50] lot of people, I get the emails from people and it is hard. It is really hard. You're expected [00:32:55] to an awful lot more with less.

[00:32:57] Gerry Scullion: And if this speaks to you like I.[00:33:00]

[00:33:04] Gerry Scullion: We're in the show [00:33:05] notes. Uh, if you're listening on Spotify or Apple or anywhere else, just check it [00:33:10] out. Give it a chance. Um, and, you know, connect with Mike on, [00:33:15] on LinkedIn. Like, you know, you, you're active on LinkedIn. Um, or send him an email. I think [00:33:20] you're, um. Can't remember the name of your, your, your [00:33:25] it.

[00:33:26] Gerry Scullion: Yeah.[00:33:30]

[00:33:30] Mike Parker: Hour. Anybody. And free, no obligation.

[00:33:34] Gerry Scullion: [00:33:35] Fantastic. Mike, I talk

[00:33:37] Mike Parker: people, you know, you can tell. [00:33:40]

[00:33:40] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. But you could definitely, um, I, I could see the role of elder [00:33:45] coming in and, uh, doing more of these kind of, uh, live sessions if you want [00:33:50] for listeners, if, if that's something you do want. Let me know, send me an [00:33:55] email, gimme a thumbs up or whatever it is.

[00:33:57] Gerry Scullion: Uh, send me a message on LinkedIn because I think it'd be a [00:34:00] really nice thing to weave some of this stuff in with intent into the podcast, [00:34:05] um, to encourage more people to, to get exposed to it. 'cause I believe that [00:34:10] this is something that we can all tap into more, become a lot more reflective, a lot [00:34:15] more kind of, um, less triggered by the work that we're doing as well.

[00:34:19] Gerry Scullion: And. [00:34:20]

[00:34:20] Mike Parker: I think it be cool.

[00:34:23] Gerry Scullion: Mike, listen, look, uh, this is [00:34:25] a, an unusual one for our listeners, but I think people are gonna love this. Um, I wrap [00:34:30] every session up, uh, on this is a CD by thanking the guests for their time, their energy, and [00:34:35] their vulnerability. In this instance, I've been probably a little bit more vulnerable than you 'cause [00:34:40] I'm, I'm speaking about my own, uh, mind.

[00:34:43] Gerry Scullion: I really, um, appreciate you [00:34:45] coming on and sharing your, your brilliance with, with the community. Thank you so much. Thanks

[00:34:49] Mike Parker: so much [00:34:50] for having me. It's always a pleasure to see

[00:34:51] [00:34:55] [00:35:00] you.

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