Getting Started in Design with Gerry Scullion

Kelly O'Dowd 'They want you to have so many skills for an entry level job'

John Carter
December 6, 2022
31
 MIN
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Kelly O'Dowd 'They want you to have so many skills for an entry level job'

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Episode shownotes

In this episode I chat with Kelly O Dowd, a recently graduate from NCAD in Ireland. We chat about what the experience was like leaving University, her search for jobs, and where they feel there’s opportunity for universities to better support students in that highly emotional stage of life - the transitional period between Uni and Working life.

Kelly is totally fantastic and I know you will get a lot out of this episode. 

- https://hangtough.ie/product/where-is-home/
- https://www.instagram.com/kellyodude/
- https://kellyodowd.myportfolio.com/

Episode Transcript

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[00:00:00] Kelly O'Dowd: They want you to have so many skills. They want you to be a graphic designer, an animator, a web designer, a 3D designer, and they want you to have two years experience for an entry level job. So I think it's one of those things where I'm just trying to get as much skills. Built up as possible and hopefully someone will take a chance on me.

[00:00:33] Gerry Scullion: Hello, welcome to Getting Started in Design. My name is Jerry s Scalian and I'm the host of, this is eight CD based in the wonderful city of Dublin Ireland. Now, in this episode, I chat with Callo dod, a recent graduate from NCAA D in. And we chat about what that experience was like leaving university, her search for jobs, and where they feel there's opportunities for universities to better support students in that highly emotional stage of life.

[00:00:56] Gerry Scullion: And that's the transitional period between uni and working life. Kelly is a [00:01:00] totally fantastic designer, and I know you're gonna get a lot of this episode. So let's jump straight in. Kelly Ode, a very warm welcome to getting started in design. How are. Oh good. Oh, good. We've been catching up there for the last half an hour or so.

[00:01:16] Gerry Scullion: Um, trying to get up to speed and, you know, what you've been up to. Um, but maybe start off and we'll tell the listeners a little bit about yourself, um, where you're from and, and what you studied in university.

[00:01:29] Kelly O'Dowd: Um, I studied illustration and design and ncd. I graduated last year and. I, I'm from dda, the same as Jerry

[00:01:39] Gerry Scullion: as myself.

[00:01:40] Gerry Scullion: I'm originally from Dhada folks, so it's one of those conversations when you get online, you're like, where are you from? And you're like, okay, great. Say exactly about a kilometer where I grew up and you went to school in the. The girls school, as you'd say. I was in the boys school, so they were quite a different age group.

[00:01:59] Gerry Scullion: But, uh, [00:02:00] it's super cool to, to speak to somebody from Dhada cuz there is always a great, um, sort of, uh, history of, of what you did Illustration in Dhada. Like there was a lot of people who I know used to come and do a spray painting underneath the, the bridge in. Being part of Conor Harrington was a friend of mine when, when I was studying this, this artist, he's over in London, and I remember Connor coming up and staying at my house for a week and um, spray painting under there.

[00:02:32] Gerry Scullion: And I was blown away by all these. Fantastic artists that, that were in the town that were kind of relatively, um, unknown at the time. But anyway. So you went to school, uh, in Dhada and you went to NCAA d How long was the degree? Tell us, you know, um, how long you were studying in NCAA for?

[00:02:52] Kelly O'Dowd: Um, the degree is three years, but I was there four cause I did the optional year.

[00:02:58] Kelly O'Dowd: We can go to Rasmus and you [00:03:00] do internships and stuff. Ah, nice. And the year I was there, they implemented a new program, um, called Bureau Plus. I think it was implemented the year before. So it was in second year. And it was based like a program for all of the designers. Um, so we got to work like at different brands and do.

[00:03:19] Kelly O'Dowd: Work for them. And then it was like a chance.

[00:03:22] Gerry Scullion: And where did you go in your rasmus? Here?

[00:03:24] Kelly O'Dowd: I went to, uh, con in, where's that? Inlands

[00:03:28] Gerry Scullion: in the Netherlands. Okay. Yeah.

[00:03:30] Kelly O'Dowd: But I got sent home early because Covid hit, no, I was there like a month and a half. I think I just started my college. Like I was just there for like three weeks maybe, and I got sent home.

[00:03:43] Kelly O'Dowd: Oh no. So I did the rest online. Policy not great.

[00:03:49] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. Especially you've given yourself a year to go away and explore and new country and stuff, and then you find yourself back in, um, the metropolis of dda. Yeah, [00:04:00] yeah. Um, doing a, a Dutch internship. Um, so yeah, like we, we won't dwell too much on, on how crappy the, uh, the Covid period was.

[00:04:11] Gerry Scullion: I'm sure. Online it was, um, it was pretty.

[00:04:14] Kelly O'Dowd: Yeah. Half my degree was online, unfortunately.

[00:04:17] Gerry Scullion: Right. Yeah. I'm sure at that stage, um, there was a bit of scrambling going on, like, you know, and I know a lot, a lot of the universities that I've spoken to were like, okay, how, how do we do this stuff online? But you were doing illustration.

[00:04:30] Gerry Scullion: Mm-hmm. . So maybe give us a, you know, quick overview of what that was like in terms. How you learned and how this stuff was being taught during, um, during the lockdowns?

[00:04:41] Kelly O'Dowd: Um, well, cause I hit, I was in that individual year I

[00:04:50] Kelly O'Dowd: where like none of mattered with different companies and stuff. So not much happened after that, [00:05:00] I don't think. I think I was more just focusing on my own work. Um, I was back in college, um, well in my final year. It was like we were in one day a week, I think. Hmm. Um, I don't even know. It, it's kind of a blur.

[00:05:20] Kelly O'Dowd: Yeah. Like, it was so hard. Cause we didn't even get to have our final show.

[00:05:25] Gerry Scullion: God was, that's. Which is like the one, the biggest thing. It's the biggest, yeah. College. It's the reward. It's the payoff. Yeah. It's the celebration. It's the, the release as well, like, you know, being able to share that experience with your, with your classmates and stuff.

[00:05:43] Gerry Scullion: Can I just go back a little bit? Little bit beyond. Um, earlier in your, in your life when you were studying, um, in school and you were doing your leaving cert, how or, and what was the experience that led you to joining or to applying for the National College of Art [00:06:00] Design or just generally wanting to study?

[00:06:03] Gerry Scullion: Um, who, who influenced you at that stage?

[00:06:06] Kelly O'Dowd: Um, well, when I was in school, like I wasn't, normally when people go to our college, they're like the one person outta their class that was really amazing and their teacher, like, you're gonna school In mine, there was three of, and all three of us went to ncd. I was the one that like, she was kind of like, you can take it or leave.

[00:06:27] Kelly O'Dowd: That kinda thing. I dunno. Um, I just decided I didn't know what I wanted to do. Um, I originally thought that I wanted to do like painting or I didn't know, like I just knew I wanted to go and do something creative. Um, so I did my portfolio in my sixth year in school, so I did it. I didn't do a portfolio course after mm-hmm.

[00:06:52] Kelly O'Dowd: Um, so I was like the youngest in college by a mile. Like I was 17 the whole way through my first year. Right. [00:07:00] Wow. Yeah.

[00:07:02] Gerry Scullion: So that's, that's pretty young. Yeah. Yeah. So you weren't able to, uh, drink then in your first year of, of university? Well,

[00:07:12] Kelly O'Dowd: actually, cause NCD used to be a brewery. Oh yeah. We drink campus , so we would just have they'd, a lot of parties going on, on all the time.

[00:07:22] Kelly O'Dowd: Yeah. So it was.

[00:07:24] Gerry Scullion: Wasn't too bad, but you were pretty young, um, doing your first year. Um, so when you, when you entered into third level, what was your expectancy? What were you expecting to get out of your time there? Like, can you remember, can you play back what that looked like? What would, what did you hope to achieve by, by spending time in, um, third level?

[00:07:48] Gerry Scullion: I,

[00:07:49] Kelly O'Dowd: I feel like it was very shortsighted. Like it was like, okay, I'm finally. Like, like whatever comes at me, comes at me kind of thing. Like especially in first year, we didn't even get [00:08:00] put into design straight away. Everyone, we had like a, a year where everyone did everything. The core. Yeah, the core year. Um, so for half the year we were just like painting with sticks and ink and like.

[00:08:13] Kelly O'Dowd: Throwing like random paper mache things together and like, right. I'm awful at making stuff like that. And like I think I was really penalized for it. And when I started making digital stuff, like our tutors were all fine art tutors, so they just didn't get it. Like, they were like, well, what's the meaning?

[00:08:32] Kelly O'Dowd: I'm like, does it have to have a meaning? And now, after being put into design, I realize it doesn't have to have a meaning. Like it can just kinda of kill So,

[00:08:42] Gerry Scullion: Yeah, and like a large part. Any kind of experience is having somebody who kind of gets you and um, is open-minded enough to be able to say, well, this is a person and this is their interpretation of this.

[00:08:56] Gerry Scullion: Mm-hmm. , especially in art college. Um, and you [00:09:00] were at that stage art college, and then you went into design College. The way I see it, the College of Art and Design. First year there was art. The second part of it was design. Yeah. And it's a little, there's a difference between the. So when you, um, were going through and you went through into your second year then to study, was it visual communications?

[00:09:20] Gerry Scullion: Is that what it's called? And it was

[00:09:22] Kelly O'Dowd: more illustration cause they split the course in two, like two years before I got in. So we had a lot of the same projects together and, but it was more like I was more focused on the illustration side of things and. So, yeah.

[00:09:40] Gerry Scullion: What did, when you were, um, you've got an older brother as well, uh, I know in your house and your parents, what, what were they hoping to get out of going to third level?

[00:09:52] Gerry Scullion: Like, you know, what, what was the, the thing that you were hoping to get apart from an education, which is obviously that's an accepted thing. Like say you go to a restaurant, you get, [00:10:00] you get a meal, you're hoping you're gonna be full at the end of it. You're gonna get educated. Was there anything else that you're hoping to get out of the whole kind of experience?

[00:10:09] Gerry Scullion: Um,

[00:10:10] Kelly O'Dowd: I would've loved to get a job, to be honest. Um, I only, I don't think I even realized what I wanted to do while I was studying there for the first few years. I think it was only in my final year that I realized I really wanted to work in like a design studio. Like I wanted to work with other people and I think as an illustrator, A lot of what you see is like illustrators online who are like freelance working for themselves and like have, have big social media presence with all these powers and you have to be posting so regularly and like to post decent work all the time is so hard.

[00:10:46] Kelly O'Dowd: Absolutely. I don't think it's like achievable for a lot of.

[00:10:51] Gerry Scullion: Was there, um, modules or lessons around running a business? And, you know, because the, the niche you went into in terms of [00:11:00] illustration and it's, it's probably a niche within a niche in some ways. Um, freelancing is most likely the, the way you're, you're gonna earn your living.

[00:11:11] Gerry Scullion: Was there anything taught around running a business and being, being an in like, not influencer, but using social media and was that something that was taught during the course? I don't, no, not

[00:11:22] Kelly O'Dowd: really. Like people come in from a, the Association of Illustrators and Okay. From England and they came over and talked to us about like pricing yourself and stuff like that, but it wasn't really.

[00:11:40] Kelly O'Dowd: Concrete and what they were saying at all. Like, I don't know, like it was a hard one.

[00:11:44] Gerry Scullion: You need to be very entrepreneurial to, to do this kind of stuff. Like, um, I know one of my. Friends in Australia, his, uh, partner Jack Cardie. If anyone who's been at the, the Doing Design Festival, [00:12:00] Jack is a musician and his partner, I can't remember their name now, but they set up a website called the Cardi Party, and it was the card D party as in like cards.

[00:12:10] Gerry Scullion: And Jack is great with words and his, his wife is an illustrator as well, and they did greeting cards online. Um, Jack's wife is an exceptional entrepreneur and, um, was able to, you know, do this kind of stuff, um, pretty quickly, and it took them like a duck to water. But it just feels like there's, there's a gap there.

[00:12:32] Gerry Scullion: Like if you're, if you're working in a niche, um, it's confusing me why they don't really educate you about starting a business and how to go about promoting yourself and get clients. Um, Yeah, as you've seen, you've struggled to, to land a a job. Um, is that fair

[00:12:51] Kelly O'Dowd: to say? Yeah, for sure. I think there's an association illustrators that they're gonna be drawing kids books and it's very [00:13:00] traditional.

[00:13:01] Kelly O'Dowd: Um, and the head of our department was like that, but we also had some other tutors that were more like modern in their approach, I guess, like they were actually. Making prints and doing stuff for big clients and stuff. But I don't think it was ever really put across was how we achieved that. Like it's kinda like, well it's look like you'll get it or you don't

[00:13:22] Gerry Scullion: kinda thing.

[00:13:23] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. Dunno if I subscribe to that. But there's definitely, you can put yourself in the right place. Um, and that takes a bit of knowledge and a bit of experience on how to position yourself, um, to get. That piece of luck to happen. You finished 15 months ago and what have you done in that period? And also, what was the whole kind of the, the saying goodbye experience from third level?

[00:13:49] Gerry Scullion: Like can you remember what that was like? Cause I know it was online.

[00:13:53] Kelly O'Dowd: Um, we didn't really get to say goodbye cause it was still during covid kinda when it ended. [00:14:00] Um, I think it was like the last wave. Kind of. Um, so we didn't get our degree show. Um, it was kind of just like, okay, so I've submitted all my stuff.

[00:14:13] Kelly O'Dowd: Now what? Cause you're so burnt out from working so hard on like, all of this work that is supposed to be like, get you all the jobs and get you everything. Like, I'm done now. Like where, what I meant to do next. And I dunno, since then I've been trying to make my way into the industry. Hmm. I've done two different internships.

[00:14:37] Kelly O'Dowd: Um, one with the design studio in , um, together we create, which is amazing. And then another one in Spain this summer wanted to go somewhere. Sony, why not ? Yeah.

[00:14:49] Gerry Scullion: Um, goes so far.

[00:14:52] Kelly O'Dowd: Yeah, exactly. Um, which was more of like an inhouse design role. But, and then [00:15:00]from then I've been freelancing on the side. Yeah. Um, doing my own work.

[00:15:05] Kelly O'Dowd: And at the moment I'm still trying to find a full time. Yeah.

[00:15:09] Gerry Scullion: So let's talk about the internships. Okay. Because there's probably a lot of stuff to uncover in that. Um, the first one was that in, in Dublin. So yeah. How did you get that?

[00:15:21] Kelly O'Dowd: I, they, the studio put out an Instagram post, basically said, looking for an.

[00:15:27] Kelly O'Dowd: Um, just email this, whatever. And I emailed and I got it. .

[00:15:33] Gerry Scullion: Ok. So what were you doing there?

[00:15:36] Kelly O'Dowd: I, it's a really small studio, so I think there was like three of us full time, and then there was other people that they hired to come in every so often for per project. Um, so I was part of the design process the full way through like, like they'd work on branding things for like drink companies, for like dentists, for festivals.

[00:15:57] Kelly O'Dowd: So I was part of it, making mood [00:16:00] boards, talking to clients, I don't know, making animations, making short little illustration things. Um, yeah, it was really nice to be part of like studio to see how it works and like how fast paced it is. And

[00:16:14] Gerry Scullion: you finished that, um, How come, you know, how, how long were you in that internship for?

[00:16:21] Kelly O'Dowd: I was there for, I think four months.

[00:16:24] Gerry Scullion: Four months. Was it paid? Yeah, it was. Okay. And it didn't, it didn't convert into, um, You know, a contract or extended work? No,

[00:16:36] Kelly O'Dowd: I think it's cause of the fact that I did illustration. I probably didn't have some of the skills that like a graphic design graduate would have.

[00:16:45] Kelly O'Dowd: Maybe it's more to do with the name of like, so you did graphic design, you obviously know all these things. Yeah. Illustration graduate, you probably do know a lot of the same things. I don't know, maybe it doesn't translate as much.

[00:16:58] Gerry Scullion: Absolutely. [00:17:00] It's um, so do you think you're in the right industry? Is, is this where you want to be?

[00:17:06] Gerry Scullion: Do, do you know the things that you need to know at this stage? Like, are you. Are you happy with the choices that you made a third level do, do you feel like that you, you're in the right place at the right time now with your skills?

[00:17:19] Kelly O'Dowd: Um, not necessarily. Like I, I'm doing course at the moment to try and that well,

[00:17:26] Gerry Scullion: and are doing what's, what's this?

[00:17:31] Kelly O'Dowd: Um, cause on job specs, they want you to do everything. They want you to have so many skills. They want you to be a graphic designer, an animator, a web designer. Mm-hmm. , a 3D designer, and they want you to have two years experience for an entry level job. So I think it's one of those things where I'm just trying to get as much skills built up as possible, and hopefully someone will take a chance on me.

[00:17:59] Gerry Scullion: That [00:18:00] language being used there, like someone to take a chance on me. Very resonant in my past. You know, like looking for just somebody to, to say, okay, give me something. I want to work, I'm willing to work. Um, I can remember what that felt like and it's. It's a pretty crappy experience to be in that position where you're just learning things for the sake of trying to make yourself more employable.

[00:18:27] Gerry Scullion: Um, I've looked at your portfolio before the, the interview and your, your work is insane. Okay? Like, I, I love that, uh, style of illustration and I'm gonna put a link to that one in the show notes for, so folks, if you're listening to this in Spotify or Google or Apple, there's a link in the show notes with Kelly's portfolio.

[00:18:46] Gerry Scullion: Click on that and listen to us when we're talking because you can see that there's, there's an immense amount of talent here amongst Kelly and Kelly struggling to get a gig. So if you do know of anything that can maybe, uh, give Kelly a leg up when we're, when we're talking [00:19:00] here, reach out to Kelly on their website, goes without saying.

[00:19:03] Gerry Scullion: But, um, have you reached out back to the, your third level NCAA d um, to explain where you're currently at and is there any services there that can help you land a. Um,

[00:19:15] Kelly O'Dowd: I reached out to one of my tutors, not like, not long ago. Mm-hmm. , and just said my portfolio and said, do you know anyone? Can you contact anyone for me or any advice on my portfolio for me to improve it?

[00:19:28] Kelly O'Dowd: Yeah. I got a reply back almost straight away saying, yeah, of course. I'll send it to whoever and I'll get back to you didn't hear anything back, so, yeah. I d. It's one of those things where it's just like, how much can they help you? Yeah. I think a lot of the tutors. Doing like five different jobs at the same

[00:19:51] Gerry Scullion: time.

[00:19:51] Gerry Scullion: Yeah, I was gonna say, it's most of the tutors that I've experienced in my career, especially in NCAA d I had [00:20:00] two or three. One in particular though, um, really gave a shit. And really wanted to make sure that everyone was set up for success. Um, but unfortunately that's not always as true. And some, sometimes people are so busy that they just can't help everyone.

[00:20:18] Gerry Scullion: Um, but it's almost like the, the bridging between industry and academia. There's, there's an opportunity there that hasn't really kind of hit, was there, I think that usually happens in, in defense of, of NCAA at the, the end of year show where, um, employers are invited in and they can look at the work and it can help lead to conversations that might lead to, to, um, It might lead to opportunities for, for employment, like, you know, well, what would you love to see?

[00:20:50] Gerry Scullion: Like how could they have made that experience better? And this is not just in ncd, it's across the board and I'm sure in many, um, sort [00:21:00] of third level institutions. What could be made better for, for people like you when you're finishing Univers? Um, that's job. Guaranteed job. Yeah.

[00:21:12] Kelly O'Dowd: Be really nice. Um, it's a hard question cause obviously they need more staff is the first thing.

[00:21:20] Kelly O'Dowd: Obviously. I'm sure that can't be, I can't change that. But, um, I don't know. Like we need more business kind of topics like talked about in like how to route yourself, like how to run out to clients because. I've done a lot of like emailing, just like cold emailing, like people, and I've actually gotten jobs from this.

[00:21:43] Kelly O'Dowd: Yeah. And no one teaches you how to reach out to people. Yeah. And I think in design sometimes people email like very casually, like I've noticed like people in school they teach to be like, dear sir, like, and then very like [00:22:00] formal, but within like what I've seen. Everyone that she like, cheers, thanks so much.

[00:22:06] Kelly O'Dowd: Like talks and like, you just don't get that kinda language. Um, and like design studios don't really put jobs on like job boards. Like it's not a thing on LinkedIn. Like you have to be the one to go to them. Like you have to email them and be like, I really like your work. Like I love this project. Please check out.

[00:22:27] Kelly O'Dowd: S my work that I've done. Do you have anything available? Any thoughts?

[00:22:31] Gerry Scullion: Yeah, . I definitely think that all, yeah, I think the first couple of projects are the most important in your entire career because. If you get something that leads to something else, that leads to something like it's a snowball effect.

[00:22:46] Gerry Scullion: And if you don't get that first couple of bits and pieces together, it's kind of you're, you're chasing your tail almost be almost to that point, like, you know. Um, but yeah, that would be a really nice module [00:23:00] in terms of, even if it's a video course or something that's saying, Hey, listen, look, this is how to set up your LinkedIn profile.

[00:23:05] Gerry Scullion: I think general assembly. Um, in Australia when I, when I did some work with them, I don't know, maybe nine years ago or something, they did have a module about setting your LinkedIn up, setting your portfolio up, um, you know, connecting with businesses. This is what you do. Playing to your strengths and so forth at that.

[00:23:25] Gerry Scullion: So that, that's a really strong suggestion. Um, Kelly, so for anyone's listening there, who's working in an academic environment, you know, I think that across the board, not just design, but I think that would be a fantastic introduction, how to set yourself up for, um, for a job like, you know, how to do an interview, um, how to show your portfolio, how to.

[00:23:47] Gerry Scullion: They're all things that, um, you know, most places aren't set up to, to, to educate people about.

[00:23:54] Kelly O'Dowd: Even, like, I don't particularly learned,

[00:23:57] Gerry Scullion: but I feel like, but even [00:24:00] showcasing your work online, um, to employers like having a newsletter that they can include all of the, the graduates too businesses around, um mm-hmm.

[00:24:11] Gerry Scullion: Around the country and Europe, that's an obvious one. I mean, the hiring managers across, uh, Ireland and, you know, students get to say, well, I'd like to be included in that newsletter or that newsletter. That would be a really good thing for, um, uh, sort of institutions to, to, to lean towards. Um, where are you at now in your career?

[00:24:35] Gerry Scullion: Like if, if you're okay for me to talk a little bit more around. Your current situation? Um, well what are you doing other than the, uh, the motion course? The motion is motion graphics. Yeah.

[00:24:48] Kelly O'Dowd: Um, well I'm applying for everything . I've applied so many jobs, done so many, got a lot of rejection emails. Um, I'm also working like part-time just in [00:25:00] like a shop.

[00:25:01] Kelly O'Dowd: Yeah. Also doing freelance bits all the time. Event posters. I'm doing something for a clothing line at the moment, like little embellishments and stuff. Mm-hmm. . Um, and yeah, just trying to, I don't even know what I'm trying to do, to be

[00:25:17] Gerry Scullion: honest. Yeah. It's super hard. Like I, I remember that I was just taken saying yes to everything and hoping something had led to something.

[00:25:25] Gerry Scullion: Um, In terms of the, the, what do they call them? The, the bodies, the design bodies in, in Ireland, like the Irish Design Institute is, is a great one. Charlotte Barker runs the Irish Design Institute. Um, have you reached out to any of these, these bodies in Ireland that might be able to assist? They might have programs or something that DIDN

[00:25:48] Kelly O'Dowd: can help?

[00:25:49] Kelly O'Dowd: Yeah, they had a program last year for graduates when I left. And, um, You paid like 20 quid I think, and then you were part of this website, which is full of all the [00:26:00] graduates. Um, and I was meant to like get a mentor and it never happened. I never got a mentor. Um, and they were meant to like send your portfolio around.

[00:26:12] Kelly O'Dowd: Nothing ever came from it. So I dunno if it's just cause it was so new. Yeah. Or what it was. Um, and then I just applied for upstarts, which is part of ica. Um, which has a lot of the, uh, biggest design studios in Dublin It, and they release briefs from each design studio and you get a mentor in that and stuff as well.

[00:26:37] Kelly O'Dowd: So hopefully I'll get to be a part of that.

[00:26:41] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. What about AP List, you know, AP list? The, the online design mentor. Website. Have you, have you tried that? Where you can get a, an international mentor, have a checkout without anyone listening? Um, it's a great resource, um, AP list. Um, I'm trying to think of the other things that out there that, [00:27:00] that could be of, of help.

[00:27:01] Gerry Scullion: Like, you know, obviously folks, this isn't, we're not setting this podcast up to try and get people jobs and stuff, but Kelly's work is insane and. There's another institution. I wouldn't call it an institution, but since I've come home from Australia, I, um, we had an awful lot of prints that we purchased when we were traveling and, you know, we went to indigenous communities in Australia and we, we bought, um, artwork and stuff and we had to get it framed and we didn't want to go to any of the, the mummies and dads suggestions of framers.

[00:27:31] Gerry Scullion: We, we were asking around, Where, where is a cool framer that gets this kinda stuff? And we were, we were introduced to a business called Hang Tough in Ireland. And um, at that stage, I think they were in another premises, but when I went over they have two now. Yeah, yeah. But this is before they went into the super cool one.

[00:27:51] Gerry Scullion: And I'll put a link to hang off into this, um, into this show notes as well for this, because hang off to me. Get [00:28:00] it. Okay. They, they get what the life is like for an illustrator. They run these exhibitions. They have a newsletter there where it showcases design talent, local design talent to people who go to get their pictures framed.

[00:28:15] Gerry Scullion: And I've bought frames and I've, I've, most of this house that I'm in, we spent a couple of grand getting the stuff, um, framed with Hang Tough and we've bought prints as a result, when I go in and buy the. Get my pictures framed. Uh, I'm flicking through all these insanely talented Irish designers and it's this kind of, sort of, I, I wanna say the, the consideration for an experience, um, and consideration for the whole kind of industry that hang tough, have that.

[00:28:47] Gerry Scullion: I feel academia. Academia don't really have, it's like it's, it's stuck in its own ways. I think if universities were doing more like, what hang tough were doing. We might be having this conversation now, like, you [00:29:00] know, but anyway, you're in hang tough, you're working with hang tough as well. So tell me what, um, what led you to hang tough?

[00:29:07] Gerry Scullion: How did you get in touch with those guys? Cause they're super cool.

[00:29:10] Kelly O'Dowd: Um, I think it was an illustrator that I had seen before, had their own show with them during the summer. An Instagram or something, was it? Yeah. And I just seen that they had an open call, um, And a lot of the stuff they do is actually more painterly.

[00:29:25] Kelly O'Dowd: It's not really illustration. Um, but I applied anyways and uh, I got picked to be one of the people in their winter show. It opens on the 1st of December to be part of that. I was there yesterday in their place in Portello. It was lovely . Ok. Um, the Prince look amazing. So if you want one, check it out. .

[00:29:53] Gerry Scullion: If you have a link for that, we'll put a link into the show notes, um, for people to, to check out and maybe buy some of your prints as well.

[00:29:58] Gerry Scullion: That would be a really nice [00:30:00] thing. Yeah, but Kelly

[00:30:02] Kelly O'Dowd: do a good job at that as well. Who do hens? Teeth Studio. Oh,

[00:30:07] Gerry Scullion: hens Teeth. Yeah, that's the other one. They do some great stuff. So I'll put a link to that one as well, um, in the show notes for the episode. But Kelly, is there anything else you wanna add before we, before we wrap up the episode?

[00:30:19] Gerry Scullion: Is there, um, any other bits and pieces if people wanna reach out to you, apart from your, your portfolio, how might they do that?

[00:30:26] Kelly O'Dowd: Um, you can check out my Instagram

[00:30:30] Gerry Scullion: on,

[00:30:30] Kelly O'Dowd: on the gram. Yeah. My Instagram is Kelly. Dude, it's such a random name, but that's what its, yeah. Yeah, by email. It's in my Instagram and in my, uh, website as

[00:30:41] Gerry Scullion: well.

[00:30:42] Gerry Scullion: Okay. Okay. Awesome. Well, look, Kelly, thanks for being so open and, and hopefully, you know, things, you know, improve in the next, uh, couple of months, in a couple of weeks hopefully. And, um, you know, stay in touch with us and if ever anything we can do with this is atd, we're more than happy to help. Alright, [00:31:00]thanks for your.

[00:31:01] Gerry Scullion: So there you have it. That's all for this episode. If you like this episode, feel free to visit. This is hcd.com where you can access our back catalog of over a hundred episodes with episodes related to service design, product management, design, research, and much, much more. If you're interested in design and innovation training, feel free to check out our business.

[00:31:20] Gerry Scullion: This is doing.com where you can join online classrooms and learn from the world's best design and innovation. Join that This is Hate CD newsletter where you'd receive updates from the network. And also, if you're interested, apply to join the Slack community. And this is hate cd.com. Stay safe and until next time, take care.

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