[00:00:00] Gerry Scullion: Can you gimme some examples of opening pieces that you've used in the past where you've seen play mobile given a greater outcome to the workshop? As in like people who are usually more reluctant to get involved and they kinda lean into the, this kind of way of working.

[00:00:15] Frank Müller: I think the great advantage is when you build up something on your own or together with colleagues, you are proud and that you are able to present something.

[00:00:26] Frank Müller: You, you have something in your hands or on the table you are talking about your masterpiece you created here. It's something different than going to the flip chart or to the PowerPoint. You know, everybody's not even looking, but here it tries the, the attention. To the buildup and maybe also colleagues who are more introvert and, and don't want to be in the center of Presentating something, then all attention will be on the buildup of play Movie Pro.

[00:00:55] Frank Müller: So that's, that could be a really, really good advantage. Yeah. To unlock the ability [00:01:00] that everybody can participate.

[00:01:06] Gerry Scullion: Hello and welcome to Bringing Design Closer On. This is H C D. My name is Jerry s Scalian. I'm the founder of This is h cd. I'm a designer, educator, design coach, and podcaster, obviously based in the wonderful city of Dublin, Ireland. And our goal here is to conversations and inspire and help move the dive forward for organizations to become more human-centered in their approach to solving complex business and societal problems.

[00:01:29] Gerry Scullion: In this conversation, I caught up with the wonderful. Frank Mueller of Play Mobile Pro. Now Frank is managing director of G B I, global Business Business Innovation in Munich, and we speak about the incredible kit that I bought recently for the Makers Doer School. The new initiative that I've launched, which is a design school for children ages between six and 12 years old.

[00:01:48] Gerry Scullion: Now we speak about how play mobile works in the professional organizational capacity to help unlock conversations and visualize complexity. Let's go into it. [00:02:00] Frank, I am so happy to have you here on the podcast. Um, I've, I feel like I've, I know you, um, through several of my peers, my friends, uh, Adam Lawrence,

[00:02:09] Frank Müller: hopefully only the, the good stories.

[00:02:13] Gerry Scullion: Um,

[00:02:14] Frank Müller: yeah,

[00:02:16] Gerry Scullion: I had to think about that. I was like, yeah, only good stories. But yes, of course. Uh, Marcus Ez and Adam Lawrence, uh, Nuremberg, they've spoken so highly and they've mentioned Play Mobile Pro to me over the years. So I'm finally getting to connect with, and as, as you know, some people who follow me on Twitter and LinkedIn, I've bought the Pro Kit.

[00:02:37] Gerry Scullion: And I have it here at my feet, at my desk. Uh, Frank has given a, a fist bump in the air. And, um, maybe for our listeners, maybe tell us what's your role with Play Mobile Pro?

[00:02:48] Frank Müller: So yeah, thank you very much for, for, uh, invitation and, and yeah, happy, happy to be here. So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm working for Playmobile actually [00:03:00] since, uh, well almost seven years.

[00:03:02] Frank Müller: A long, long time already. Yeah. And, um, It's the first time, like we, we were thinking about like, how can we address new target groups? How can we spot new, new opportunities? So mm-hmm. My role, ATLI Mobile is, is in the new business development innovation department, um, innovation, uh, management, and, um, What we have spotted with p playmobile on, on, on social media and when talking with friends and and family is that PLI Mobile has been already a part in workshops in the, in the business context.

[00:03:40] Frank Müller: Yes. And this, this was quite interesting to see and, and we were asking, okay, so what kind of figures are you using there and, and what are you actually doing with this? And um, it was mostly on HR topics so that. Um, HR managers, uh, were [00:04:00] visualizing, um, teams were visualizing hierarchies, problems, solution and, and so on.

[00:04:06] Frank Müller: And we are, we were getting into contact with them and we thought, okay, maybe there, there could be one, one interesting case there for PLI Mobile. Um, and this is how, how we started with this, um, 2007 17 already. Some, some, some years ago.

[00:04:24] Gerry Scullion: So it's, um, for, for people listening, play mobile, uh, has a really big competitor in the market called Lego.

[00:04:33] Gerry Scullion: Okay. So Le Lego also have a version of this and it's, it's kind of the elephant in the room. People will probably say, yeah, okay. I've heard of serious play. Um, so people are using basically the, the, the tools that we've had from our childhood. In a business context to try and visualize the complexity. Is that that, that's fair to say.

[00:04:56] Gerry Scullion: Does that

[00:04:57] Frank Müller: surmise it? Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Def

[00:04:59] Gerry Scullion: Def [00:05:00] definitely. So how do they compare in terms of like, like with Play Mobile Pro? The reason why I went for Play Mobile Pro in terms to invest further into, um, was really the flexibility and the lack of rigidity in terms of the methods. Like it seems like it was better suited.

[00:05:18] Gerry Scullion: To talking about systems and services. Is that fair to say? Yeah, yeah. Sure, sure. You're, you're gonna let me say that anyway?

[00:05:28] Frank Müller: No. Um, interesting that, that everybody is referring directly to legal as a competitor in, in this field, and it, it, it might be right or from, from our point of view, like, There's, there's no big competition because, I mean, Lego is so, uh, is, is, uh, you know, so far already in, in the market. They, they did a fantastic job with Lego serious play.

[00:05:57] Frank Müller: Yeah. Um, with the proven method [00:06:00] behind that. Professors, you know, doing the science here and, and really, really fantastic. And, uh, uh, it's. I think a really, really fantastic tool for, you know, construction to come up to build something. And, and this is absolutely, you know, what, what legal also stands for, like for the brick and for, but you know, I'm, I'm, I'm the one guy maybe to uh, to compare, maybe to compare.

[00:06:27] Frank Müller: So I, I only can say what, what Li is and. The, the, the core and the DNA of, of PLE mobile is, is the figure. Um, yeah. So the figures in the, in the center of, of, of the attention and what comes with figure is of course, role play, building scenarios, storytelling. And I think this is one, one big advantage. Uh, we, we have here and, and I think there's, there's no big competition because it's, it's a different field.

[00:06:59] Frank Müller: We, [00:07:00] we can use legal. And, and people we maybe both fit, fit together in one run room.

[00:07:05] Gerry Scullion: Why? Why not? Yeah, I, I mean, I would see no reason why you can't do both, but from an independent practitioner like myself to get set up on serious play versus getting set up and play Mobile Pro, there's a, there's an outlay and a cost to get up to speed.

[00:07:21] Gerry Scullion: Like, you know, with serious play, you've gotta go the most likely do some training. Just several thousand and then to buy the boxes and the kits, several thousand. Um, whereas play Mobile Pro, um, especially because I have the connection with Marcus and Adam who were, who had mentioned to me many times over the years, it's much more affordable to get into it and it provides me the flexibility of being able to dress the figure.

[00:07:44] Gerry Scullion: Mm-hmm. Um, and draw on the figure and create and offer that kind of environment for learning where people can actually adapt. To figure, uh, in a much more curated way. And that was what really sold me, especially cuz I'm, I'm working on this, the [00:08:00] Makers Endure school. This, this design school for children ages six to 12 and it really lended itself really nicely to that.

[00:08:07] Gerry Scullion: So, so children can actually invest into the figurine themselves. Now, can I ask you, you were waving your hands around there a second ago, um, in a very manly manner, and you were holding a, what looked like a, a very small man that was dressed in. Was it a hard hat that I see? Yes. Talk, talk to me about what you've got in your

[00:08:32] Frank Müller: hands at the moment.

[00:08:34] Frank Müller: Exactly. So, um, for, for further introduction of, of myself, so I, I brought a little playmobile pro figure to me. Mm-hmm. Um, with me. And, uh, I, I have a little task for you, Gary. So, um, Maybe describe what you see on, with, with this figure and, and maybe come up with some mifa Mifa that that might [00:09:00] fit to, to me, and, and I can add to this, uh, than, than for sure, but, okay.

[00:09:05] Frank Müller: So

[00:09:05] Gerry Scullion: a metaphor for this. Okay. You're gonna have to put it a little bit closer to the camera. So I see I'll a yellow hard hated, uh, figurine with. Binoculars and, uh, a cup of coffee, which for people who are eager eared, they can hear me drinking coffee at the same time. What is the, is that a, a gold bag or something?

[00:09:29] Frank Müller: What is the, uh, this this one? Yeah. Yeah. Glass wine. Is it for me? It's a little genie

[00:09:35] Gerry Scullion: bottle. Oh, it's a genie in the bottle. So, How I, how, uh, how I'm interpreting this is you use your binoculars to see things in the future, see things in the distance. So, And I guess you've got a little light on your hard hat there.

[00:09:56] Gerry Scullion: And I guess that is, you need a bit of [00:10:00] resilience to, to do this. Uh, you're gonna get some knocks along the way. Um, but you've got a flashlight, which allows you just to have enough clarity what's in frontiers, which is, you know, the whole kind of service design, two steps ahead, kind of nice approach to things.

[00:10:14] Gerry Scullion: Mm-hmm. Um, and a cup of coffee, which is probably something of, of a personal metaphor. That you like coffee, which is, uh, I know a bit of a farfetch assumption, but you probably need some energy to, you need something ex external to keep you going, um, and then you're wearing. Blue clogs, which I'd rather not, uh, assume there your

[00:10:42] Frank Müller: bit child, like good, good Life always is in flip flops, you know, in the flip flops.

[00:10:47] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:51] Gerry Scullion: Lover. Put based in Germany, basically li limited access to the waves. And then the genie in the bottle is, [00:11:00] um, I'll let you finish that one off. Tell me what the genie in the bottle means.

[00:11:04] Frank Müller: Yeah, you, you, you never know what, what comes out at, uh, when you wrap at, at the lamb, boy at the, at the bottle. And, uh, this is also something in, in terms of.

[00:11:15] Frank Müller: Business development, like you use spot new, new opportunities, but you never know what at the end comes, comes out of it. Yeah. So it's a, it's a bit, uh, digging in the, in the dark, but, uh, I love it. I, I, I think you did a fantastic job. You, you didn't spot one, one little thing. Maybe it's, it's, uh, was not close, but here's a little spot on my white jacket that's, uh, a coffee spot actually, because I'm a bit clumsy, so every time I pick up a coffee, so I'm, I'm getting.

[00:11:48] Frank Müller: Yeah, yeah. But other than this fan, fantastic. And this is, this is just a little start how we get in, into, into pro also, uh, in, in [00:12:00] our head office. So when we have meetings with, uh, new external partners, like we group up. Two and two, and we, we give each other five minutes time to, to explain a little bit like a business context, but also on the private side.

[00:12:15] Frank Müller: Like, okay, Tammy, tell me one secret maybe, uh, you, you want to share. And um, then you have some time and. Built this, uh, this, this, this colleague, your, your, um, um, your, your business, uh, colleague as a, as apro, and introduce it to the group. And you, you can immediately see what, what this makes instead of, of having.

[00:12:40] Frank Müller: Just a round up on, on a round table and say, yeah, I'm Frank, good day, and blah, blah, blah. Uh, you, you start with a smile and you, you're getting into action. You have something in your hand and, uh, it, it, it starts a meeting like on, on a good way. Uh, and there's.

[00:12:59] Gerry Scullion: S [00:13:00] psychologically there, there's obvious advantages for this.

[00:13:03] Gerry Scullion: Like, you know, you're, you're entering into a meeting and, uh, in 99.9% of the meetings that I've had in corporate environment, they start off with a bit of chit chat, and then they get into the nitty gritty and there's very little time afforded to the whole. You know, smiling and laughing and exploration and play or any of these kind of things.

[00:13:29] Gerry Scullion: And some may argue that there is no space or no, no time. It's not appropriate for these things. Um, what do you say to those people who, who would sit in a relatively constricted or corporate environment that is like, Hey, if I was to bring this in, people might think that I'm not taking my job seriously.

[00:13:47] Frank Müller: Oh yeah. And, and we had this comment and, uh, especially like also when, when Marcus and Adam helped developing, um, this, this, this product, um, in a [00:14:00] design and and service design, uh, approach. Um, We, we packed, uh, some, some playmobile stuff in a, in a, um, back we, we get from the construction shop, uh mm-hmm. And, uh, send it out to, to companies and, and to, um, friends from, um, from, from companies like to Bosch, to Siemens, to Adida and, and so on, and say, okay, how.

[00:14:30] Frank Müller: Like, here's a back of, of playmobile. How would you use it? Like, how is like in, in which context? There, there were some resistance and saying, ah, come on now I, I, I really have to play with play mobile. Like I, I could take this from, from my, uh, sons or daughter's carpet, you know, and, and, and bring it here.

[00:14:52] Frank Müller: So, mm, I'm, I'm not too sure, but. What we found found out is then when we used [00:15:00] neutral plank figures. Um, it reduces the childish context, um, and it has the, the big advantage that you are able to write on the figures and can, can wipe it, uh, um, uh, can wipe it away, uh, afterwards. Um, so it reduces the barriers, uh, especially yeah, for top management to play actually with, with, with Playmobile.

[00:15:27] Frank Müller: Um, because you bring in a bit of a more serious context with, with some white neutral, um, figures, blank blank figures. Yeah.

[00:15:38] Gerry Scullion: I mean, that whole ability to, to draw is on the figure is, is really, really powerful and the ability to personalize it. Ha. Has there any been a, a further exploration around, um, changing this skin tone color?

[00:15:54] Gerry Scullion: So it's a little bit more diverse because there's a subconscious part of me that is, it's a [00:16:00] white, um, white only. Agreed,

[00:16:03] Frank Müller: and, and we, and this was of, of course not, not, not the purpose potential, but, um, and, and attention definitely. So what we are, So, but we, we, we get some, some feedback on, on this and we, we take it really, really serious and it's, um, it's, it's a good, good comment.

[00:16:24] Frank Müller: So what we are preparing for the next set is, um, we are switching our material, uh, to a sustainable material. Um, okay, so, It's, um, um, it is over 80% recycled material. What we are using for the figures and, and for the accessories. And with this, uh, the material is also a bit going into light gray. So we don't have Okay, have this shiny white, uh, fear anymore.

[00:16:57] Frank Müller: It, it's more and. [00:17:00] It's also flexible in, in the, in the coloring, but still you have, um, the high possibility to draw, um, on it. And, um, I think this is a, is a really, really good, good solution. Yeah. Um, other than this, of course, we are thinking also to offer, um, all kinds of, um, of colors for the, for the figures.

[00:17:22] Frank Müller: Um, yeah, maybe as a, as a additional set, um, this will be a really, really good, good idea approach.

[00:17:29] Gerry Scullion: Absolutely. Um, it's just fair. Like I, I wanted to call it out, like, you know, when, when we were looking through the, the toolkit, um, even my, my little girl who's looking at it and I have to keep it away from, that's why it's up on my office up here.

[00:17:42] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. Because they, they are literally, They're ready to, to explore it. And I'm like, look, it's not really a toy for you. But they did say, oh look, everyone's white. And, you know, in, in their school, um, there's children, um, of all different skin colors. So they did, they did, they commented on it, and they're, [00:18:00] they're six or seven years old.

[00:18:01] Gerry Scullion: Um, and it's important we have those conversations, uh, upfront as well. So it's great to see that. That it's already been raised inside, I play mobile. Um, can you give us other examples of maybe businesses that are using it at the moment? We've already spoken about how it can sometimes feel like childlike.

[00:18:19] Gerry Scullion: Mm-hmm. But, um, in incorporating play has got huge benefits to, uh, opening the mind. You know, problem solving, connecting with your peers and so forth. Can you give us some examples? You mentioned Siemens there before, um, of, of organizations that have adopted it into their

[00:18:36] Frank Müller: ways of working. Oh, yes. Of, of course.

[00:18:40] Frank Müller: I mean, um, because the figures in the center, so it, it could be a, a, a really, really great help and support in all. Um, Persons Zoom related issues. Um, so as I said before, like in [00:19:00] hr, um, like how the new team setup could look like, like billing scenarios. This, this could be a really, really big, big, um, advantage using, using Play Movie Pro.

[00:19:11] Frank Müller: But, um, what. We found out many companies are using is, um, you know, when starting a, a project like in, in project management, like when you have your huge conference table, you are using one kind of a, of a, um, sticker note. And then you're saying, okay, that's, that's my start of the project. Here's my goal, and now what are the, the different milestones, what we need to achieve until when?

[00:19:39] Frank Müller: Now please group together. Uh, like you are doing the first milestone, you're the second. And visualize it. It's much better than doing this on the flip chart or, or, or something because you know, it, it sticks with the, um, with the colleagues. And, uh, I think there, there's, there's one. Uh, [00:20:00] quote, uh, from Edgar saying, remember, we remember 20% of what we hear, 30% of what we see, 50% of what we see in here, and 70% of what we discuss with others.

[00:20:14] Frank Müller: And I think this is a great tool to help you discussing with, with your colleague having something in hand and, and, uh, you know, building up something. And, uh, this is something what yeah, is, is really helping. One of the

[00:20:28] Gerry Scullion: bits that I. I love about, um, play mobile and, and in serious play as well is in traditional workshops and I'm doing air quote traditional workshops where you've got Post-Its and, and so forth.

[00:20:43] Gerry Scullion: There is always a potential there for participants to sort of, Hide behind some of the artifacts that are created. Mm-hmm. When you position these, um, these artifacts, these tools, these elements to co-create or, or build on your own, [00:21:00] there's less chance of them not being involved.

[00:21:04] Frank Müller: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

[00:21:06] Gerry Scullion: Am I, yeah, so I, I, I I am right in saying that.

[00:21:09] Gerry Scullion: Can you gimme some examples of, um, of kind of opening pieces that you've used in the past where you've seen play mobile given a greater outcome to the, to the workshop? As in like, people who are, um, usually more reluctant to get involved and they kinda lean into the, this kind of way of working.

[00:21:28] Frank Müller: I think the, the great advantage is when you build up something either on your own or together with colleagues, you are proud and that you are able to present something.

[00:21:40] Frank Müller: You, you have something in your hands or on the table, you know, and it, you are talking about your, your masterpiece, you, you created here. It's something different than going to the flip chart or to the PowerPoint. You know, everybody's. Not, not even looking, but, but here it tries the, the attention to, to the [00:22:00] buildup and um, and maybe also, Colleagues who are more, uh, introvert and, and don't want to be in the center of, of presenta, presentating something.

[00:22:13] Frank Müller: Um, then all attention, um, will be on, on the, on the buildup of, of, uh, play will be pro. So that's, that could be a really, really good, good advantage to unlock, uh, yeah, the ability that everybody can participate.

[00:22:31] Gerry Scullion: I know, um, work play experience, they've used it heavily in a lot of their, uh, workshops. Okay. Um, most people that I've spoken to or have used a.

[00:22:44] Gerry Scullion: Toolkit like service play or serious play or play Mobile pro, they, they tend to assume that it's just for icebreakers. It's just a way, it's a fun way to start things. I'd love you to gimme a little bit more information around how it can be used to [00:23:00] strategize services. So things that are a lot more complex than say, um, hope you know.

[00:23:07] Gerry Scullion: Sort of personalize the figurine based on your own personality or any of those tho those exercises, can you gimme some more examples of businesses that are, are using it to, to flesh out that complexity?

[00:23:20] Frank Müller: So I think the main working areas is, is, is like marketing, communication, as I said, transformation and people with, with hr, but uh, especially on innovation and creativity and, uh, working closely together with Marcus at a mark on, on with work play experience.

[00:23:40] Frank Müller: Yeah. Like reusing, play movie pro in terms of all steps in, in service design. So for, for example, um, first part on the, on the empathy part, like, um, getting more visualize whom you are talking [00:24:00] to and, and, you know, uh, visualize your, your, your target group, visualize a persona and, and trying to, to figure out like okay.

[00:24:09] Frank Müller: And what kind surrounding they are currently. And, um, so you're, you're trying to. To solve your, or answer your, your question and, and get a bit more closer to, to your target group and, and trying to define it and trying to visualize it. But also in the, in the ideation, in prototype, uh, in, in, in, in testing, it's, it's always a good, good help.

[00:24:35] Frank Müller: Like on the. Uh, we are using it really close on, on a customer journey, for example, like Yeah, I was gonna say, if we are coming up with a new product idea, like we are trying to think of the way how customers, um, Are getting along the, the buying process and, and afterwards, um, would be, would be a good example for you [00:25:00] when you have bought the play movie Repro, you said like, that was not the nicest experience and, and I agree with you.

[00:25:06] Frank Müller: I

[00:25:06] Gerry Scullion: dunno what you're talking about, Frank. Folks, if you're gonna buy this, it's a great experience talking. It was a little bit bumpy. Uh, it's say

[00:25:14] Frank Müller: little bit bumpy, but this would be nice also to, to show like having Gary on the, on the customer journey here. On the buying process and, and where are the bumpy parts and, and why are you, are you feeling like, like this?

[00:25:27] Frank Müller: So, um, this, this, this will be quite, quite nice. Also, stakeholder maps, like who's involved in the Yeah. In the project and, and so on like that they're, Millions of, of possibilities. Like how, how you can use it in the whole process.

[00:25:42] Gerry Scullion: I feel we, we need to get some maps of Europe laid out in order to do the, uh, the customer journey of me purchasing from Germany because I was adamant that the product had to be shipped from Germany and I wasn't gonna incur anything outta the uk, um, for the [00:26:00] duty.

[00:26:00] Gerry Scullion: Okay. Okay. Cause. It wasn't cheap, but that was, that was part of the clunkiness. It was. It was because it was being shipped. The UK were, were triggering it and it was coming from Germany and you know, there was kind of a lack of ownership but. It was, I'm so happy to get it. I was more eager fi

[00:26:16] Frank Müller: finally. You get it?

[00:26:17] Frank Müller: Yes, exactly.

[00:26:19] Gerry Scullion: I got it just before St. Patrick's Day. And the children were like, what's that? Is that play mobile? And I'm like, no, we need, we need more

[00:26:27] Frank Müller: men and and women here.

[00:26:30] Gerry Scullion: Well, that was one of the questions that. The children had there, like, there's so many artifacts that go along that, that connect to the figurines.

[00:26:37] Gerry Scullion: Have you seen a kind of, uh, increase of people using, uh, 3D printers to, to create their own elements to connect into the, the figurines? Is that something that you're, you're seeing more of?

[00:26:49] Frank Müller: Yeah. Or not definitely just, just ask Marcus. Like

[00:26:54] Gerry Scullion: now it's, I'm not allowed. Call Marcus. Or every time I call him, that guy [00:27:00] literally shows, shows me something that he's just bought.

[00:27:02] Gerry Scullion: It just costs me it. It's about a two to 300 euro conversation when you speak to someone like Marcus, cuz you walk awakening. Yeah. Okay. I probably need that now, so. Exactly. Yeah. Tell me what he's doing with the 3D printer. Now

[00:27:16] Frank Müller: exactly like you, you are, you are quite flexible on this. Like you, you, you get data, uh, in, in the World, world Web and, and you can immediately print, print out stuff that fits to your, to your needs.

[00:27:30] Frank Müller: Um, yeah. And it's, it's great what, what's happening out, out there. And, um, yeah, definitely we, we supported on. Um, I mean, still BLE is, is a kit toy, so we have some security, um, uh, at safety, safety, uh, issues, uh, when printing out stuff for kids. But, uh, on the B2B side, like, um, yeah, it's

[00:27:56] Gerry Scullion: uh,

[00:27:56] Frank Müller: it's a bit more flexible.

[00:27:57] Frank Müller: More flexible. Exactly.

[00:27:59] Gerry Scullion: A bit more [00:28:00] flexible. So if you were to, um, if you were at a dinner party, Frank, okay. And people say, okay, you, you work for play mobile. Presumably they're gonna think that it's just a, a kid's toy and stuff. Um, and then you might have told 'em a little bit more like about the stuff that we've spoken about in terms of how it can actually help organizations and how teams align and stuff.

[00:28:21] Gerry Scullion: What are the, what are the least amount of pieces, what's the entry point into play mobile that you advise to people who aren't really from a design background that want to bring it into their organization? What, what kind of kit do you think they would need to start the process off?

[00:28:37] Frank Müller: Uh, in terms of products you mean?

[00:28:40] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. Just to start off like a sampler. Like, they're like, okay, well I'm, I'm interested to learn more. Mm-hmm. What pieces do you think they should buy to get started? Should they, where should they go? What, what do they need to buy? Is it like a kit for four people? What's, what's the important, um, props that are really, uh, going to be used and [00:29:00] overused time and time again.

[00:29:02] Frank Müller: So they're currently. Three kits, uh, in the market, which you can find online on, uh, pro.play.com. So it's, it's our own shop. Um, There's the, the welcome set, um, which only contains two figures, some accessories, you know, the pen and, and so on, just to try, try out. Um, it's, it's also perfect like when somebody's already, uh, facilitator for Bleu Bpro that, um, uh, he or she can then, Uh, provide the participants with, with some, um, nice, nice present.

[00:29:43] Frank Müller: So this is just a little starter, starter set, but um, if you are familiar already with limo, limo, bpro, or you want to try out, then there's the starter kit. Um, okay. We say it's for [00:30:00] around five people in a, in a, in a workshop environment, and it contains. Several figures and, um, accessories and, um, something for smaller group to try out.

[00:30:15] Frank Müller: Um, and it, it comes in too little, um, cases and, uh, you can easily travel also with, with this. So there's, there's quite nice, and then if you, if you are really familiar and uh, you want to try out more and you work more with Play Movie Pro, there's the professional set. Um, it comes in a, in a heavy, heavy, uh, heavy case.

[00:30:41] Frank Müller: Um, I think you, you have experience and already built some, some muscles, right? Yeah. Carry, carry it around.

[00:30:48] Gerry Scullion: It's very, it's very light for me. And with my stocky Irish muscular build, I can, it's two hands

[00:30:58] Frank Müller: exactly, but it comes [00:31:00] with nearly 500. Pieces inside. Like it's all about Yeah, exactly. All about characters.

[00:31:06] Frank Müller: It's about costumes, like how you want to build your, your character. It's about accessories, building the world around it, like what kind of an environment you, you want to be. And then there's, there's a, a stationary, um, Um, element with Post-Its and, and, um, with sticky notes, with pens and, uh, wipers and, and so on and so forth.

[00:31:31] Frank Müller: Um, everything you need to prepare your, your Perfect workshop,

[00:31:36] Gerry Scullion: new workshops. Here's a question for you. Now. It's, it's one that's related to. The new initiative that I'm working on, the makers and doers, presumably some of these children might fall in love with Play Mobile Pro. The kit that I have in for my workshops, and I am not stating that any child that attends the Makers and doers school is in any way a thief.

[00:31:57] Gerry Scullion: But if parts of the, the kit was, [00:32:00] was. Carefully removed by accident in their pockets. Are there pieces ind, are there pieces individually? Can, can you buy rebuy, individual pieces? Is that something that's possible?

[00:32:13] Frank Müller: Uh, exactly. Like if you, if you're a customer, like there's, there's a service hotline and, uh, yeah, I mean, would Frank's personal

[00:32:21] Gerry Scullion: home,

[00:32:22] Frank Müller: oh yes.

[00:32:23] Frank Müller: Uhhuh only available on Sundays for. You can get those things. I mean, you, you can check with, with service and, uh, they're, they're happy to provide, you know, uh, two laptops I'm missing or, or something like, like this. Yeah. With the figures, we are a bit more restricted because, I mean, that's, that's the main USP of Lyu B Pro, having those blank figures within, within the set.

[00:32:52] Frank Müller: So there's no possibility that. That, uh, non-customer, uh, can, can call or order just white free [00:33:00] greens because I mean, that's part of the business model, main case. However, if you are a customer and you say, you know, I, I need 10, 10 more figures, um, then, uh, that there's also, um, possibility to, to buy them.

[00:33:15] Frank Müller: There was

[00:33:16] Gerry Scullion: another thing I wanted to give a shout out. That's good, by the way. That's good to know that, uh, it is there because, um, I, I may have two of those children who may not steal, uh, but may arrive in their pockets living with me. It's too appealing. Exactly. And stop. I I have to, I have to move this box around.

[00:33:35] Gerry Scullion: I need to get a safe. Uh, the children are, when are you gonna get up to count All those pieces. I'm like, you're going nowhere near that Playmobile brick broke it. But I know they'll get to it eventually. And I know I'll probably end up having to buy, uh, additional stuff. One of the

[00:33:48] Frank Müller: pieces I'm looking up your playable croque.

[00:33:50] Frank Müller: This, this will be a nice product feature. Okay. You need to, you need to give a lock

[00:33:54] Gerry Scullion: and key on it now that's, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Feature enhancement to the box. One of the questions I had [00:34:00] beforehand. So service play has, uh, or not service play, I keep on going. Serious play. You've got, you know, there's lots of trainings around there and train the trainer programs and when I was googling around for resources, That, uh, you might lean into for workshop creations and stuff.

[00:34:19] Gerry Scullion: Obviously you can use it, it's flexible. You can, you can come up with your own ideas and applications for use, but I know, um, you work alongside Juan Rego, um, who created, what is it the Pro Playbook, is it, is that what's called Yes. Tell us what's inside that book for people. I'll put a link to this one in the show notes as well for people who are interested in it.

[00:34:40] Frank Müller: Yeah, I, I, I highly recommend this. So, um, From, from our side, like we, we said, uh, we don't want to establish like an official method to learn PLI bi pro. Yeah, it should be as flexible as possible and uh, we hope that [00:35:00] design thinking and service design will, will be there in, in 10, 20 years time. But we don't know, maybe in five years time there, there's a new method coming, coming up.

[00:35:09] Frank Müller: Everybody's is keen learning this and, and play will be part pro. Could be a good, good part of, of this. So we want to be as, as flexible as possible. However, of course, there were some, some feedback like, okay, now I have this huge big case, uh, on, on my desk. What should I do now with, with this? Um, and that's, uh, why we have a great support with Juan Leggo and his company AC Activa.

[00:35:38] Frank Müller: It's a, it's a Spanish, um, company, but um, also having trainings offering in international markets. And, um, he's actually trained facilitators train. Um, Uh, people were interested in, in learning more about Play Movie [00:36:00] Pro. Um, and, uh, he's, he's our only official partner on, on this, um, okay. And, uh, he's, he's doing, he and his team is doing a, a fantastic job.

[00:36:12] Frank Müller: Like you, you are getting out, out of these workshops with a big smile and with a big, big value in, in hand. So there's this, that's really, really great. Nice.

[00:36:21] Gerry Scullion: Well, as we, as we were, um, recording this, I've already purchased that book, um, that's probably coming from Spain. Is it? I think it's, mm-hmm. Uh, it looks like, you know, I got a big SIUs Jerry when, when, when I, when I purchased that book.

[00:36:35] Gerry Scullion: I, I, I like to buy and support as many of the people that are mentioned on the podcast. Um, so I'll put a link to Han's book in there as well for people who just want to maybe learn a little bit more about it and get involved and, Maybe they might be able to incorporate some of those things in their workshops.

[00:36:53] Gerry Scullion: But Frank, you know, we are coming towards the end of the episode. We, we've spoken, you know, there's a chance there that you might do a, a newsletter takeover. [00:37:00] So, uh, you know, add some play mobile tips and tricks or a little bit more information and context to this episode. So if you're signed up to the newsletter folks on this is hcd.com, you can get some more information from Frank, hopefully in, in the next couple of weeks or months.

[00:37:15] Gerry Scullion: Uh, you'll talk a little bit more about Play Mobile Pro, um, but like every conversation, Frank, is, is there anything that you wanted to give a shout out to before we wrap up the, the podcast?

[00:37:27] Frank Müller: Uh, SHA to you. Thank you very, very much, uh, for mutation. No welcome. It was, it was a really, uh, a pleasure to minutes here with, with you.

[00:37:37] Frank Müller: Thank you very

[00:37:37] Gerry Scullion: much. Absolutely. And I'm delighted. I'm delighted to connect. I've learned, uh, an awful lot from speaking with you today, and I'm excited to, to go on the journey with Play Mobile Pro. Um, I'll put a link to play. The pro play mobile pro.com, uh, URL on the show notes folks, if you wanna take a a look and check it out.

[00:37:55] Gerry Scullion: Um, or you can follow me on LinkedIn. I'll be talking about it over the next couple of months and how I'm using it [00:38:00] to teach the next generation of children in Ireland about design and service design. So thank you so much for your time, Frank. It's been absolutely awesome speaking with you. If people want to continue, uh, following you particularly on, uh, on the internet, what's the best channel for them to do so?

[00:38:15] Frank Müller: Yeah, please connect through LinkedIn. I think this, this will be the best. Best way. The best way. Happy, happy to connect. Yes, daddy,

[00:38:23] Gerry Scullion: I'll put a link to your LinkedIn in the show notes as well. So listen, thanks so much for your time, Frank.

[00:38:28] Frank Müller: Wow. It was awesome. Thank you very much.

[00:38:34] Gerry Scullion: There you go folks. I hope you enjoyed that episode and if you enjoyed it and want to listen to more, why not visit? This is hate cd.com where you can learn more about what we are up to and also explore our courses while through there. Thanks again for listening.

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