Systems of Care – Allen Bobinac on Rethinking Homelessness and Addiction Support Services

[00:00:00] Gerry Scullion: Hey folks, and welcome back to another episode of This Is HCD. My name is [00:00:05] Gerry Scullion and I'm a human centered service design practitioner based in Dublin, CityIreland. [00:00:10] And today in the show we've got Allen Bobinac. Allen isthe most remarkable [00:00:15] person that I've spoken to in a very, very long time. He runs the Lighthouse Cafe, [00:00:20] which is a center for people suffering with addiction and homelessness.[00:00:25]

[00:00:25] Gerry Scullion: This is a bit of an unusual episode for us because it's a start of what John Thackara, uh, [00:00:30] correctly pointed at LinkedIn called PLODPOD, um, where I want to try and do more walking [00:00:35] podcasts. So you're gonna be seeing us walking through Dublin City from [00:00:40] Stephens Green for anyone who knows Dublin. And what's makes this as a special starting point [00:00:45] is Allen actually was homeless for a long time in Dublin and lived in Stevens [00:00:50] Green and stepped rough.

[00:00:51] Gerry Scullion: Before meeting one of the most remarkable senators that I've ever met [00:00:55] called Senator Aubrey McCarthy, who is the founder of Tiglan. And, um, [00:01:00] basically has, uh, helped Allen on his journey along with his brother Jay. [00:01:05] And we're gonna be talking a lot more, and we're gonna end up at the podcast at the very end of the podcast, should I say, at [00:01:10] Tigand in the Lighthouse Center in, uh, pier Street in Dublin.

[00:01:14] Gerry Scullion: So there's three things [00:01:15] that really hit me in this episode, and the first one was the lived experience as leadership. [00:01:20] Now, his journey from the streets. To management really shows how powerful it is [00:01:25] to have people with real lived experience shaping those services. The second point is [00:01:30] designing for dignity.

[00:01:30] Gerry Scullion: We call this out quite a lot in the episode. The Lighthouse Cafe isn't just for [00:01:35] food or shelter, it's really for, um, it's a place, it's a, it's [00:01:40] a solace. It's very, very warm. It's full of really kind people, [00:01:45] and it's all about human sanctuary, so to speak, uh, in the center of Dublin City. And [00:01:50] I love that. It's absolutely fantastic to see something like this thriving in the middle of Dublin City.[00:01:55]

[00:01:55] Gerry Scullion: And the third point is community is the secret sauce here. Um, you'll see that there's [00:02:00] people volunteering like barbers, people donating their clothes, and people really [00:02:05] helping the people who need it the most. Okay? People who have more often [00:02:10] not, not asked for these situations, they've been placed in these situations and they need our help.

[00:02:14] Gerry Scullion: [00:02:15] So, I really, really hope you, you, you see what I see when I see these experiences and [00:02:20] how, how deeply rooted it is in the community. It's one that's gonna stick with you. I did this [00:02:25] episode a couple of weeks ago and there hasn't been a day, or probably an hour that goes by. We're [00:02:30] not reflecting on how remarkable Allen and Jay is and also how Aubrey is as well.

[00:02:34] Gerry Scullion: 'cause we'll be doing another episode with them in the next couple of weeks as well. I know you're gonna enjoy this, [00:02:40] but it's a great example. Want to see Dublin, see Allen? And just speaking really openly, [00:02:45] I hope you like the new format of a podcast. If you do, please leave a comment. Uh, get in touch.[00:02:50]

[00:02:50] Gerry Scullion: Otherwise, let's jump in. I know you're gonna enjoy it.[00:02:55] [00:03:00]

[00:03:02] Gerry Scullion: We're here in Steven's Green, [00:03:05] um, and we're gonna come to that in a few minutes on talking about why we're centering ourselves. [00:03:10] Start of this podcast. Maybe for our listeners, tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're from and what [00:03:15] you do.

[00:03:16] Allen Bobinac: Starting to rain there. Starting to rain. So, uh, welcome to

[00:03:18] Passer by: Dublin.

[00:03:18] Allen Bobinac: Yeah, [00:03:20] so I come from Croatia from a small island called Kirk. [00:03:25] And uh, I have a twin brother as well. Yeah. So we, we grew up [00:03:30] in, uh, what I can describe as a broken home. And, uh, [00:03:35] you know, when we finished, uh, I think high school, the equivalent of a high school, [00:03:40] there wasn't many opportunities there. And even since an early age, we always had plans [00:03:45] about what we were gonna do, you know, when we reached 18.

[00:03:48] Allen Bobinac: 'cause obviously when you look [00:03:50] around, you know, there's a lot of tourism and I, I think things are better right now. Yeah. But [00:03:55] there certainly wasn't many opportunities. So in, in, in the summer of 20, [00:04:00] uh, 15, we managed the car park for a few weeks. Yeah. [00:04:05] And, and, and we saved up all the money. And then when we looked at it, that's everything that we had.[00:04:10]

[00:04:10] Allen Bobinac: And the next opportunity wasn't gonna come by. Certainly in my head, I wasn't gonna come by for a long time.

[00:04:14] Passer by: [00:04:15] Yeah.

[00:04:15] Allen Bobinac: And then we used money. My brother went to the nearest city and he purchased a [00:04:20] plane ticket and a tent. And then, because I worked more hours than him, [00:04:25] uh, uh, I was the one who was gonna venture out into the world and kind of tried to find work [00:04:30] Yeah.

[00:04:30] Allen Bobinac: And, and try to do something with that money. Yeah. So in, in, in October of [00:04:35] 2015, October 5th, I came to Ireland, actually got off the bus, not, not too far from here. [00:04:40] And, uh, that was it. My mission was to find work. [00:04:45]

[00:04:45] Passer by: Yeah. And

[00:04:45] Allen Bobinac: I, I, I would come here actually for the first, actually, for the first [00:04:50] maybe 10 days, I would sit just around the corner.

[00:04:54] Passer by: Right.

[00:04:54] Allen Bobinac: [00:04:55] And it would actually, Ireland has a very unique climate, as you know.

[00:04:58] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:04:58] Allen Bobinac: So I, I had a [00:05:00] suitcase that I would drag around with me everywhere I went. And I, the nights are [00:05:05] cold. It's, they, they were called back in the. And then it would come here and the sun would come up [00:05:10] and I was, and then you get a bit of a warmth.

[00:05:13] Allen Bobinac: And then one day [00:05:15] the sun stopped coming up, and then it didn't come up for, it didn't come up for the [00:05:20] next, uh, I think certainly nine months. Yeah. It was a very cloudy, uh, [00:05:25] year, that year. So, and rainy,

[00:05:28] Gerry Scullion: you know, to, to kind of [00:05:30] surmise, like when you arrived here, you were homeless Yeah. In, into Ireland. And now you're [00:05:35] working with Tigand.

[00:05:36] Gerry Scullion: Um, describe what Tigand does [00:05:40]

[00:05:40] Allen Bobinac: for our listeners. Well, tiging is a charity founded as a [00:05:45] rehab center in 2008. And now it has nine different centers that [00:05:50] encompassed, uh, uh, uh, mainly rehabs, rehabs, aftercare, which is a big [00:05:55] one. Uh, uh, uh, homeless work. A a and other kind of centers. Yeah. But [00:06:00] it, it's, it's root rooted in, uh, addiction and homelessness.

[00:06:03] Allen Bobinac: Right.

[00:06:04] Gerry Scullion: So it's, [00:06:05] it's not just a, a drop in place to get a piece of food. It's a support center. [00:06:10]

[00:06:10] Allen Bobinac: Exactly. Yeah.

[00:06:11] Gerry Scullion: Yeah.

[00:06:11] Allen Bobinac: Um, if you are talking about the life, maybe [00:06:15] we're jumping a little bit

[00:06:16] Gerry Scullion: here. Yeah. At tickling generally, that's the purpose. Yeah. It's, it's an [00:06:20] infrastructure there to help people move ahead in their journey, to step away from homelessness, [00:06:25] move, move forward.

[00:06:26] Allen Bobinac: Is that correct? That that's it exactly. Yeah. And, and lemme tell you [00:06:30] how we came across to Glen actually. So

[00:06:33] Passer by: let's keep walking.

[00:06:33] Allen Bobinac: Yeah. [00:06:35] So every day I would, uh, go out, [00:06:40] hand out my cvs. I would spend a lot of the time at the library and, uh, [00:06:45] yeah, the goal was to find work and I didn't have anything to put on my CV [00:06:50] back in the day.

[00:06:50] Allen Bobinac: So you would just make up different things just to put them on the, on the cv. [00:06:55] Yeah. So. It took me about four months. Uh, I was in [00:07:00] touch with these, uh, recruitment agencies and through one of them I got a day's work with killings. [00:07:05] Yeah. Store we talked about. And, uh, I went there and I worked for a [00:07:10] day, and after tax was the deduct, I got 50 euros.

[00:07:14] Allen Bobinac: So then I [00:07:15] used that money to bring my brother here, my twin brother, Jay. [00:07:20] Uh, and then from there on we were on the streets together, [00:07:25] going to all these homeland services and, uh, looking for work. And we spent a [00:07:30] lot of time here. Like we could go all over this park and, and, and we slept there. We slept [00:07:35] here, we slept there, slept on the other side.

[00:07:38] Allen Bobinac: Band stand is next door. So e [00:07:40] everywhere. Um, what was it

[00:07:43] Gerry Scullion: like, like in here at night? I've never been in [00:07:45] here after the gates are closed. Right. Um, you know, I'm privileged to say that like I'm, I'm lucky [00:07:50] that I haven't faced the same situation that you have, but in here at night. [00:07:55] You know, were there other people sleeping

[00:07:57] Allen Bobinac: at the same time?

[00:07:58] Allen Bobinac: Oh yeah. No, the way it works is [00:08:00] if you're looking at kind of the homeless world, it's an underworld. There's quite, quite a [00:08:05] few people on the street and you get to know them all, all very quickly. I always say there's some you don't [00:08:10] know. So when you're here in the evening, this place, there's, there's a lot [00:08:15] of people here, subculture, I suppose you can, you could put that label [00:08:20] on it.

[00:08:20] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:08:21] Allen Bobinac: So one thing you always have to do is you have to sleep with other [00:08:25] people. Now, when I first came, I didn't know anyone, so, and I didn't meet anyone, so it was [00:08:30] just me. But when my brother later joined me, and as I got to know the [00:08:35] people, you have an unspoken contract where even if I, I know you, but I don't know you, [00:08:40] and we go and we sleep somewhere together in the same spot.

[00:08:43] Allen Bobinac: That way you're safer in [00:08:45] numbers. But there was so many occasions. Even I remember here, there was [00:08:50] three of us. And my brother woke up middle of the night and there was a guy [00:08:55] just walking around us and, and looking at us. And, uh, [00:09:00] I mean, that's what happens. Even when you sleep on the street, people will still try to rob you and [00:09:05] there's a lot of that stuff going on.

[00:09:07] Allen Bobinac: You're very vulnerable. You, you're very, very vulnerable, very [00:09:10] exposed.

[00:09:10] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:09:11] Allen Bobinac: And, uh, so that's kind of the life. Yeah. That's, [00:09:15] that's the life. A hundred percent.

[00:09:16] Gerry Scullion: So like, let's go back to, you mentioned there about getting your CVS [00:09:20] ready and handing them out to shops and anywhere you could get work. Where, where were you [00:09:25] finding access to those computers?

[00:09:27] Gerry Scullion: To print? Because that's a big thing [00:09:30] for, for people who are homeless. Yeah. Getting access to the basic provisions to be able to help [00:09:35] them

[00:09:35] Allen Bobinac: get the step ahead. Actually, the way I describe it is when you live on the street in Ireland, in [00:09:40] Dublin, you have everything, everything you need besides a house. Okay?

[00:09:44] Allen Bobinac: So if you need a [00:09:45] computer. That's easy. Library. The library is one, just one of them. You know, I [00:09:50] will go there and I would spend an entire day there. So you, you do your stuff, you know, you [00:09:55] apply for, for jobs for two hours. Yeah. But you're not gonna do it for six hours. Then, then you can [00:10:00] do a bit of reading, you know, you can use computers to, you know, for entertainment as well.

[00:10:04] Allen Bobinac: [00:10:05] So, uh, that's okay. It's quite easy to come across. Yeah. Uh, supports.

[00:10:09] Gerry Scullion: [00:10:10] So, as regards other aspects of what you needed at those, that time [00:10:15] when you and Jay were in the park and you were sleeping here at night, um, and you mentioned that it was getting [00:10:20] cold, what did it look like? What services were available [00:10:25] to you to be able to find a place to sleep?

[00:10:28] Gerry Scullion: Um, were there people [00:10:30] or services there that maybe helped you with blankets or tents? What does that look like [00:10:35] currently at the moment? Like, what was available to you Right back then? Well, now

[00:10:38] Allen Bobinac: you're getting into the [00:10:40] nitty gritty of kind of the whole system survival. Um, so there's a, [00:10:45] there's. There's maybe five different homeless services that you can use.

[00:10:49] Allen Bobinac: Yeah. For food, [00:10:50] for showers, for everything. In terms of, um, getting a bed, [00:10:55] everything goes through the city council. Yeah. They call it the free phone. So you call, call that [00:11:00] number, and, uh, you get a bed for the night if there's any beds. Okay. Now did you [00:11:05] avail that service? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, but, but there's kind of a little bit more to it, [00:11:10] because if you're talking about, I don't, just to be very direct, when [00:11:15] you're talking about homeless services in Dublin, you're talking about drugs.

[00:11:19] Allen Bobinac: So [00:11:20] if you go there, it, it, it's, it's very unique [00:11:25] in a way that everyone is using drugs. Okay. And everyone has issues, [00:11:30] let's put it that way. Yeah. So it, it's, it's not always a nice, it's [00:11:35] not always nice places, uh, to sleep, to stay. Yeah. Because even when you're inside, you [00:11:40] have to keep your eyes open and, you know, stuff goes missing and Absolutely.[00:11:45]

[00:11:45] Allen Bobinac: Um, so in, in a sense, it's almost easier [00:11:50] to stay outside. Yeah. Now, would you prefer to stay inside? Yes. You would. [00:11:55] But you, beds don't always come your way. Yeah. And when they don't, [00:12:00] you know, it's no problem. You, you're used to it, you're used to sleeping outside. Yeah. [00:12:05] So you just get by day by day.

[00:12:07] Gerry Scullion: So we, we mentioned Tigand [00:12:10] and Lin's, your employer at Yeah.

[00:12:12] Gerry Scullion: How long have you been working with Tigand? Since, [00:12:15] uh, 2018. 2018. Okay. So you had three years there from when you arrived [00:12:20] in Ireland Yeah. To start and work with tig

[00:12:21] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:12:22] Gerry Scullion: In that period. Um, [00:12:25] how did you move ahead? Um, moving out of the homeless phase and into, [00:12:30] uh, the workforce?

[00:12:33] Allen Bobinac: So six months [00:12:35] in, six months into being on the streets, I was working as a kitchen porter [00:12:40] in West Dublin.

[00:12:41] Allen Bobinac: Okay. So I would work during the day and. You know, during the night [00:12:45] to kind of, you know, sleep outside, all that stuff. So everything changed [00:12:50] quickly. So in August of 20, uh, 16, we met Aubrey [00:12:55] McCarthy. Yeah. Who recently became a senator. That's right. And, uh, the Clinton used to have this bus [00:13:00] called the Nova Cafe.

[00:13:01] Allen Bobinac: They would go to every part of the city, and they were engaged with people living [00:13:05] on the streets. And, uh, when, when he met us, how did he meet you? [00:13:10] Well, he was, uh, uh, driving the bus at, at the time. So he, he told us he was the bus driver. [00:13:15] Yeah. And he, he was very friendly and kind of, uh, very engaging. [00:13:20] And, uh, you know, for a few weeks we didn't even know his name, but when we knew [00:13:25] we would actually call him Jeremy, because he reminded us of, of, uh, Jeremy Clarkson from [00:13:30] TopCare.

[00:13:31] Allen Bobinac: But I love it. And that, that's kind of the gig. [00:13:35] What he tried to do is, you know, engage with the people and [00:13:40] see who has put this way. Yeah. Yeah. See who, who's got potential, who you, you know, you [00:13:45] can help to get off the street. And I suppose he saw something in us. I, I don't think [00:13:50] we kind of seemed like street people or anything like that.

[00:13:52] Allen Bobinac: We just, we were young guys who were very shy [00:13:55] and needed a little bit of help. So he, he arranged [00:14:00] for us to move into transitional housing with the Glen. Okay. The Glen is it, what

[00:14:04] Gerry Scullion: did you [00:14:05] say?

[00:14:05] Allen Bobinac: Uh, transitional housing. Okay. What that is is it's, it's a housing [00:14:10] model where you, you get to stay there for a year and provided you're pursuing [00:14:15] work and education and betterment, you the, it gets [00:14:20] extended, right?

[00:14:21] Allen Bobinac: So we started doing college. We, we, we [00:14:25] took on every opportunity that came our way and we've been doing that ever [00:14:30] since. So education was one of those opportunities. [00:14:35] So t Glenn through, through this guy called, uh, Joe Collins. Right. He [00:14:40] was the head of Lifelong Learning at, uh, it Carlo today. Uh, [00:14:45] it Carlo back in the day.

[00:14:46] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:14:46] Allen Bobinac: They, they came up with this model where anyone who, [00:14:50] uh, is kind of Lin's Care t Glenn's Care can study [00:14:55] with it KLO for free. So we started kind of, we [00:15:00] started with smaller courses and then as, uh, ultimately we progressed to bigger and bigger [00:15:05] courses. And then this year we graduated with, with our second masters.

[00:15:09] Allen Bobinac: So [00:15:10] there was, uh, that's amazing. Yeah. That's What did you get your masters in while International [00:15:15] Relations and, uh, social Studies. Mike Flex.

[00:15:19] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. Mike [00:15:20] Flex. That's amazing.

[00:15:21] Allen Bobinac: Yeah,

[00:15:21] Gerry Scullion: it's amazing. That's, that's super relevant. So

[00:15:24] Allen Bobinac: [00:15:25] why, why is that important? Yeah. 'cause the system is structured to kind of allow people [00:15:30] to pursue what they want to pursue.

[00:15:33] Allen Bobinac: And everybody gets the same [00:15:35] opportunity. Yeah. So if, if I did a master's with, now it's south, it's called [00:15:40] Southeast Technological University. Yeah. Anyone with the Glin can take those same steps and do the [00:15:45] same thing. Wow. Okay. That's so cool. But, you know, education isn't for everyone. [00:15:50] Yeah. Some people go in other directions.

[00:15:52] Allen Bobinac: Yeah. But over the years, there's been over a thousand [00:15:55] people who amazing. Use this, you know, use the service. Can

[00:15:59] Gerry Scullion: I ask you about the, [00:16:00] um, the experience of learning then? So you are under Lin's Care and it's beautiful [00:16:05] Irish, whether here it's the summertime, believe it or not. Um, you're in Lin's Care. [00:16:10] How did you find studying and what, what did that experience look like?

[00:16:14] Gerry Scullion: You mentioned the library was [00:16:15] there, you got access to computers, but was there something there that Lin offered that [00:16:20] helped increase the chances of completing the course? Is there any support network there [00:16:25] within the, the

[00:16:26] Allen Bobinac: frameworks?

[00:16:28] Gerry Scullion: Well, if you're

[00:16:28] Allen Bobinac: talking about studying, you [00:16:30] know Yeah. Set two, finding

[00:16:31] Passer by: space.

[00:16:32] Passer by: The

[00:16:34] Allen Bobinac: provided [00:16:35] you ask for help, they give you whatever you want.

[00:16:38] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:16:39] Allen Bobinac: You know, if you [00:16:40] need extra kind of tutoring, all these supports are in all these institutions. [00:16:45] Right. That's fantastic. And the glen kind of took care of the housing bit [00:16:50] and everything else was, uh, smooth sailing, let's say.

[00:16:53] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:16:54] Allen Bobinac: So as long [00:16:55] as you put in the effort, things worked out.

[00:16:57] Gerry Scullion: So you were at that stage for those three years, you were [00:17:00] learning and educating and availing those services to, I guess, improve. Yeah. [00:17:05] Um, the likelihood of finding a job, how did you start the [00:17:10] conversations with, uh, with Aubrey led to you working part, [00:17:15] you and Jay? Well, I

[00:17:17] Allen Bobinac: suppose it was, uh, organic enough.[00:17:20]

[00:17:20] Allen Bobinac: Um, but they have what's called a community employment scheme.

[00:17:24] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:17:24] Allen Bobinac: In a [00:17:25] sense what that is, it's back the work scheme. Right. And at the, at the [00:17:30] minute, I think they have the largest. Community employment scheme in the country know [00:17:35] how many individuals, maybe 150 or something like that.

[00:17:37] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:17:38] Allen Bobinac: So what that is, [00:17:40] is a person joins the scheme.

[00:17:41] Allen Bobinac: They work in all these various centers, [00:17:45] various different roles.

[00:17:46] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:17:46] Allen Bobinac: But while they're pursuing that, that they have to [00:17:50] kind of focus on, uh, getting upskilled, you know, uh, education is [00:17:55] one of those things. Yeah. And, and, and the goal is to take a person and rather to use them [00:18:00] for, for lifting boxes and, you know, manual labor.

[00:18:03] Allen Bobinac: You kind of [00:18:05] try to, uh, build, try to give them a certain skillset that can be used [00:18:10] later down the road. Okay. So the focus is really upskilling people. And it, [00:18:15] it's not for them to stay at the Glen, that's not the goal. The goal is can you help them [00:18:20] build them up and then they can go out in the world and they can, you know, yeah.

[00:18:24] Allen Bobinac: They can work [00:18:25] in any sector that they want.

[00:18:26] Gerry Scullion: You mentioned the Glen. Glen, is that the

[00:18:28] Allen Bobinac: name of the the [00:18:30] transitional housing? No, the, no, the Glen. It's, it's in Dublin eight next to, um, [00:18:35] next to the for courts.

[00:18:37] Gerry Scullion: Okay.

[00:18:38] Allen Bobinac: It's called Chancery Place. [00:18:40]

[00:18:40] Gerry Scullion: Chancery Place. Okay. I know it as that.

[00:18:41] Allen Bobinac: Yeah.

[00:18:42] Gerry Scullion: Um, so how long were you in the Glen [00:18:45] then?

[00:18:45] Gerry Scullion: How long were you living there?

[00:18:48] Allen Bobinac: Um, we were there for a couple years. Couple [00:18:50] years? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:50] Passer by: And what

[00:18:51] Allen Bobinac: was that experience like? Yeah, well it's, [00:18:55] uh, you get to live there and obviously for a reasonable price.

[00:18:59] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:18:59] Allen Bobinac: [00:19:00] So you pay your, uh, uh, weekly contribution and, uh, [00:19:05] so you, you, you're not really stressed over bills or anything like that now.[00:19:10]

[00:19:10] Allen Bobinac: And, and, and that kind of allows you to, to do kind of [00:19:15] whatever you're pursuing without feeling the stress of, oh, I'm gonna have [00:19:20] to move out, or, yeah, I have to pay crazy money because obviously if you live. If you live [00:19:25] in Dublin at the minute, uh, it's crazy money. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And when you're starting [00:19:30] out, and let's say you're just gotten off the street and [00:19:35] you're not really, you know, in, in the best job or you don't [00:19:40] have that many avenues to take.

[00:19:43] Allen Bobinac: Yeah. How [00:19:45] will you afford to, uh, live in, in anywhere? Yeah. You, you won't [00:19:50] for because, and I'll tell you why. If you look at the homeless kind of world in Dublin, [00:19:55] I mean, close to a hundred percent of people, as far as I can [00:20:00] see, they end up living in what's called emergency accommodation.

[00:20:03] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:20:04] Allen Bobinac: Homeless [00:20:05] hospitals would be unofficial term.

[00:20:07] Allen Bobinac: And I was telling you, as I was telling you before, there's [00:20:10] a lot of dysfunction. There's a lot of drugs. There's a, there's a lot of messing. Yeah. A lot of [00:20:15] problems. So what happens is you, you kind of, you try to [00:20:20] do something good. I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about general, a random individual. [00:20:25] Now you get off the street and now you're faced with, with all these problems that [00:20:30] you know, you, you shouldn't be.

[00:20:32] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:20:32] Allen Bobinac: So when, when you take a person away from [00:20:35] that world and you put them somewhere else, ling for example, then it, it [00:20:40] allows you time to, to develop. Absolutely. So [00:20:45]

[00:20:46] Gerry Scullion: I'm thinking about Tling, I'm thinking about, you know, the role that Aubrey [00:20:50] has played in your life. Um, you mentioned that he was driving the bus.

[00:20:54] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. He was [00:20:55] very hands-on in the early days of Tling. I know Lin from my work with Dublin city [00:21:00] Council. I'd love to understand how Dublin city council, you [00:21:05] know, where you saw them fitting into your kind of roadmap. [00:21:10] Um, to move ahead out of the homeless phase of your life and into the next stages [00:21:15] was.

[00:21:15] Gerry Scullion: What other services other than Lin were you able to avail of? [00:21:20]

[00:21:20] Allen Bobinac: Well, I was, as I was telling you, uh, there's, you know, you have the [00:21:25] Caption day center, you have the Manity who've been great. Yeah. Um, merchant ski, [00:21:30] obviously. Yeah. But, uh, like I said, Mo they do help [00:21:35] people with, you know, CVS and stuff like that, but ultimately it [00:21:40] isn't as comprehensive as Lin would be.

[00:21:42] Allen Bobinac: Yeah. Because why do you think that is? [00:21:45] Well, I, I have to say it, it is because of Aubrey. [00:21:50] Yeah. And he has assembled a team around him, uh, over the, over the years. And me and Jay, [00:21:55] you know, we have our, our ideas as well, and it's worked brilliantly. [00:22:00] And he's, he is got his own story kind of. And, uh, [00:22:05] it's about, it's about seeing things on multiple levels.

[00:22:09] Allen Bobinac: Yeah. [00:22:10] Rarely things are black and white. A hundred percent. And, uh, he, he's developed [00:22:15] many, many different businesses and he is been a, a, he is a successful person. So [00:22:20] he just took on that approach, that mindset. Yeah. And he approached it to, uh, I suppose a [00:22:25] social impact. I suppose that's how you would call it, maybe.

[00:22:27] Allen Bobinac: Yeah. And, uh, [00:22:30] I mean, it, that's why it's, it's working and, uh, like, it, [00:22:35] it's not always people in addiction, but for the most part you are working with people in [00:22:40] addiction.

[00:22:40] Passer by: Yeah. And it's

[00:22:41] Allen Bobinac: like, I have no kind of [00:22:45] previous understanding maybe of addiction,

[00:22:47] Passer by: but

[00:22:47] Allen Bobinac: when I see a person who I know from the [00:22:50] streets and the way they act, and then you see them after rehab and now they're doing everything else, [00:22:55] it's two different people.

[00:22:56] Allen Bobinac: Yeah. And, and Aubrey's background kind of [00:23:00] involves maybe, let's say addiction in the family. Yeah. And that's what [00:23:05] drives him as well. But when you see one person. Before and [00:23:10] after Lin it, it, you can't really compare the people. Okay. So, [00:23:15] and addiction is a big problem in Ireland, obviously. I mean, [00:23:20] you can't, you can't miss it.

[00:23:22] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:23:22] Allen Bobinac: And let's say there's a hundred thousand [00:23:25] people, let's say I'm just making up a number, a hundred thousand people in addiction. If you can get those people out [00:23:30] and kind of bring them back to becoming a, a, a, a, [00:23:35] no, I mean, uh, contributing members of [00:23:40] society, you are really saving. [00:23:45] It's not just one life by, by doing that for one person, it [00:23:50] has a ripple effect on everyone around them.

[00:23:52] Allen Bobinac: Oh, yeah. And, and also look at the amount of [00:23:55] resources you're saving as well. Then it makes sense. It just, it's, it's all [00:24:00] surplus in a sense.

[00:24:01] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. Well, you mentioned [00:24:05] there about Aubrey being critical in terms of. Siglin success. You [00:24:10] know, um, I mentioned when I first met you, you and Jay, when I [00:24:15] googled Siglin and I'd heard about your story in the Irish Times.

[00:24:19] Gerry Scullion: [00:24:20] You and Jay were the face of it, of like you've been interviewed and stuff. I know you probably don't want to [00:24:25] hear that, but you were used with the first face that I, I saw. Um, [00:24:30] how important is it that you are able to draw on your own personal life [00:24:35] experience when you're working with Inland? 'cause some other organizations out there might be listening and they [00:24:40] might not value that as much as they probably should.

[00:24:43] Gerry Scullion: And I, I'm keen to [00:24:45] hear and get your perspective on what value you bring, having [00:24:50] that life experience

[00:24:51] Allen Bobinac: of, of being homeless. Okay. Well if you're talking about, [00:24:55] if you're talking about homelessness, it's such a tough world and such a tough sector.

[00:24:58] Passer by: Yeah. So

[00:24:58] Allen Bobinac: really you want to [00:25:00] people who have a, a, a kind of a, a, a, a good [00:25:05] perspective, people who have been through the system.

[00:25:07] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:25:08] Allen Bobinac: Through that world, [00:25:10] because only then you, you know what people need and, and [00:25:15] you, because when I was on the streets there, there's certain things that I didn't [00:25:20] have. And when I started working with the Glen, [00:25:25] that, that was the things I focused on. Yeah. Because the system, [00:25:30] it can, it, it, the system in a sense is ones and zeros.

[00:25:34] Allen Bobinac: It doesn't [00:25:35] account for, uh, uh, people and, uh, for their needs or anything like that. [00:25:40] But when you get the right people in there, and there's so many names that can bring up. Yeah. You [00:25:45] know, Edie, for example, she, she works in the lighthouse and she gets [00:25:50] all the women into treatment, to the, uh, uh, female, uh, to [00:25:55] the women's center.

[00:25:57] Allen Bobinac: And the way she talks to people, she knows what to [00:26:00] say. She's, she's the, she's the right person for it. Then you have the two [00:26:05] guys. Who, who manage the, the, the team leads in, in the lighthouse. [00:26:10] Uh, Robert and David, if you were to build a person [00:26:15] to work there and do that role, you, you would build them and, and [00:26:20] they're just in the lighthouse.

[00:26:21] Allen Bobinac: Beyond that, there's, there's so many other people that you can Yeah. [00:26:25] Bring up. And they're, they're in the right place. So [00:26:30] when you, when you're talking about this sector, it's very critical to find [00:26:35] the right person.

[00:26:35] Gerry Scullion: Hundred percent.

[00:26:36] Allen Bobinac: Because you, you get the wrong person, you'll get set back by, [00:26:40] you know, by miles.

[00:26:41] Allen Bobinac: Yeah.

[00:26:43] Gerry Scullion: Talk to me about the lifehouse. You [00:26:45] manage the lifehouse or the lighthouse. Yeah. So, um, tell us what it, [00:26:50] what its purpose is.

[00:26:52] Allen Bobinac: Well, it's, it's open seven days a week, [00:26:55] first of all. Yeah. Day and night. So for, you have the afternoon and the evening [00:27:00] service and, uh, first and foremost it has a cafe, homeless cafe.[00:27:05]

[00:27:05] Allen Bobinac: And, uh, you're feeding kind of people beyond that. [00:27:10] What's, okay, I'll tell you what I, how I contributed to the [00:27:15] lighthouse and why that's important. So when I was in the street [00:27:20] there, there was no place to relax, for example.

[00:27:23] Passer by: Yeah,

[00:27:24] Allen Bobinac: you are, you are [00:27:25] always on the move and you can't really stop or wa you know, watch television or sit [00:27:30] down or anything like that.

[00:27:31] Allen Bobinac: So I came up with, my approach was to create a living room for those in need [00:27:35] one. So we, I introduced, uh, uh, music, live [00:27:40] music and then always, so let's say you are on the street all day and it's [00:27:45] raining and it's white and you coming to the lighthouse and there's all this food, there's live music, and it's like [00:27:50] being in a, in the best place you can imagine.

[00:27:53] Allen Bobinac: So it has a huge ripple effect. [00:27:55] Oh yeah. Um, bingo nights, movie nights, we have [00:28:00] culture nights, you know, the embassies, for example, they. Organized for food, for [00:28:05] music, for decorations, for everything. So it's you, [00:28:10] it's, it's a celebration that Miss Ireland came down a few weeks [00:28:15] ago and she, uh, uh, styled the women.

[00:28:18] Allen Bobinac: So, [00:28:20] and that, that's just some of the things I introduced.

[00:28:22] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:28:22] Allen Bobinac: Why is that important? [00:28:25] Because when you're helping a person who's in the street, rarely you're gonna meet them once [00:28:30] and that's it. You, you got them off the street and everything's doing well. It [00:28:35] takes weeks, it takes months, sometimes years of consistent [00:28:40] engagement.

[00:28:41] Allen Bobinac: So by creating all this buzz around the place, [00:28:45] people keep coming back.

[00:28:46] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:28:46] Allen Bobinac: And as they keep coming back, you get to know them [00:28:50] personally and then myself and all these individuals that I [00:28:55] was talking about a few minutes ago, they can push them in the right direction. Nice. [00:29:00] So they can push them to rehabs so they can push them into.

[00:29:03] Allen Bobinac: You know, um, [00:29:05] housing and, and, and different things. And on only then [00:29:10] you had an impact. How,

[00:29:12] Gerry Scullion: how do you measure that impact? [00:29:15]

[00:29:15] Allen Bobinac: It's very hard to measure because when you take off one person [00:29:20] off the street, two new people will end up on the street. So when you're there, the [00:29:25] queue isn't getting smaller, it's getting bigger.

[00:29:27] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:29:28] Allen Bobinac: But [00:29:30] you, you, you kind of know, you, you know, people you've [00:29:35] helped and a lot of the times they end up, if not working with you, they end up [00:29:40] helping in, in some shape or form.

[00:29:43] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:29:43] Allen Bobinac: And uh, [00:29:45] yeah, like I said, at the end of the day, [00:29:50] those people also serve as examples because [00:29:55] if you live with someone on the street and now you see them, [00:30:00] uh, working in the lighthouse and doing well.

[00:30:02] Allen Bobinac: It gives you the blueprint of what to do.

[00:30:04] Gerry Scullion: [00:30:05] Yeah. We're just passing, coincidentally, the Irish government. Yeah. Uh, the, the [00:30:10] headquarters of the Irish government. How do you feel the Irish government is working to [00:30:15] support the infrastructure to, um, for homelessness? [00:30:20] What, what are you hoping to see more of in the next couple of years as regards to [00:30:25] government supports for services like Lin?[00:30:30]

[00:30:30] Allen Bobinac: Well, I think obviously there's the big housing crisis and all that.

[00:30:33] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:30:34] Allen Bobinac: And, [00:30:35] uh, this is beyond me or anyone, anyone else on, on the [00:30:40] ground. But from what I can see is [00:30:45] you have places like to Glen who are obviously doing, [00:30:50] I suppose, fighting the good fight.

[00:30:51] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:30:52] Allen Bobinac: And because people end up on the [00:30:55] streets for various different reasons, and 90% of the time it's gonna be [00:31:00] addiction.

[00:31:01] Allen Bobinac: Or it's gonna be trauma. So [00:31:05] if they can only, uh, uh, support [00:31:10] places like that, and it would, it would have a [00:31:15] big effect. And I suppose, like I was telling you before, it's [00:31:20] it, this isn't black and white. This isn't about feeding people. This is very, it has to be a very [00:31:25] comprehensive approach. And, uh, yeah. [00:31:30] I mean, like I said, it, it's very tough.

[00:31:32] Allen Bobinac: It, it's, it's a very, it's a very big [00:31:35] task. Yeah. And I only see the side of the people who kind of trickle [00:31:40] down onto the streets. Yeah. And, and, and there's a reason, you know, [00:31:45] there's, there's, everybody has a story and there's a, [00:31:50] and I, maybe I'm not the best to talk about this.

[00:31:53] Gerry Scullion: That's all right. You know, is.[00:31:55]

[00:31:55] Gerry Scullion: That's exactly what we're looking to hear. We're, look, we're looking to understand your own perspective. 'cause you're in the [00:32:00] field. Yeah. You're in the world of this stuff. Yeah. Can I just go back to measuring impact? [00:32:05] So, um, getting people in into a, a [00:32:10] safe surrounds is Yeah. Is probably the key goal. Yeah.

[00:32:13] Gerry Scullion: Getting them outta vulnerability and into [00:32:15] somewhere where they feel safe and secure and respected, and seen and heard. [00:32:20] They're all things that tling do. You know, you see them as [00:32:25] individuals, you bring them in, you give them, you know, love and warmth effectively, [00:32:30] uh, really, really important. Um, as regards other stuff [00:32:35] that's maybe outside of your ecosystem if you want, [00:32:40] what other partners do you have to partner with as regards Tiging to help [00:32:45] get that outcome?

[00:32:48] Allen Bobinac: Well, I [00:32:50] suppose one of the things that I see working in Green Stones with the, um. [00:32:55] Aftercare houses is the community. They, they buy [00:33:00] into it. So it, it's a big blue house called Carini. [00:33:05] Okay. And so essentially, let's say you're in Dublin, you're in on drugs. Yeah. [00:33:10] Through I or Steven. You got referred to the Men's Center or the Women's Center.

[00:33:14] Allen Bobinac: [00:33:15] Then you stay up there for nine months or six months, sorry, it's six [00:33:20] months. And then you go to aftercare, right. In Greystones. So [00:33:25] essentially you have this very wealthy town. Yeah. And they have [00:33:30] this big blue house with bunch of ex addicts, and yet they don't [00:33:35] see it that way. They know them by their names because they're all part of the community.

[00:33:39] Allen Bobinac: They all work. [00:33:40] There's a social enterprise called Rise at the Cove. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, it's a very successful [00:33:45] coffee shop and they use all that money for, you know, the youth cafe and, and [00:33:50] different things like that. And they give back to their community. The, the most important thing is, [00:33:55] is they're not seen as ex addicts.

[00:33:57] Allen Bobinac: They're seen, they're seen as part of the community [00:34:00] whilst they're there. Hmm. So, in a sense, that's the [00:34:05] biggest thing. You know, you, you have a, a very structured system that works, that allows people to [00:34:10] get upskilled while at the same time they're, they're, you [00:34:15] know, just members of the community. Yeah. Until they're ready [00:34:20] to go back to, you know, I suppose maybe where they come from or maybe [00:34:25] somewhere else doesn't matter.

[00:34:26] Allen Bobinac: Then they go back a different person.

[00:34:28] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [00:34:30] And we talk about you finding tling. I just keep coming back to that point. Yeah. [00:34:35] If you're homeless in this city at the moment, how do they find out about your [00:34:40] services?

[00:34:41] Allen Bobinac: If you're homeless in the streets [00:34:45] and, uh, you go to even one of the places. You're gonna find [00:34:50] out about all the other ones.

[00:34:51] Allen Bobinac: It, it, it's, it's a very small world. [00:34:55]

[00:34:55] Gerry Scullion: Um, what does it look like? So say somebody's out there at the moment, they're [00:35:00] homeless and they hear about TIG them. Yeah. How do they reach out [00:35:05] and how do you handle, you know, a multicultural, um, society in Ireland [00:35:10] where maybe English is not their first language? How do you, how, how is that [00:35:15] catered to, I'm really interested in that aspect of making sure that maybe [00:35:20] people come here, they don't speak English.

[00:35:22] Gerry Scullion: How is that handled? I'm not, [00:35:25] look, I'm sure you probably don't have it all figured out. Yeah. But I'd love to understand that, that aspect

[00:35:29] Allen Bobinac: of things. Well, [00:35:30] if you talk, if you're talking about living on the streets and the lighthouse Yeah. [00:35:35] There's, you have the best thing possible and people speak many, many languages.

[00:35:39] Allen Bobinac: So [00:35:40] really is you come there for food.

[00:35:42] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:35:42] Allen Bobinac: And then you keep coming back for various different [00:35:45] reasons. Maybe. Maybe it's the social aspect. Oftentimes it is a social aspect. Yeah. [00:35:50] And then I, people are gonna tell you if [00:35:55] you, if, if we have a chat with you, I'm gonna tell you, oh, you know, this is an option for you, [00:36:00] or that's an option for you.

[00:36:02] Allen Bobinac: And something that works for [00:36:05] you might not work for that guy. But it's that daily engagement that [00:36:10] allows for people to get, get to know all the services. Now obviously you have leaflets and everything. [00:36:15] Yeah. But the key is really getting to know people by, by their name and, uh, [00:36:20] interacting with them, uh, daily.

[00:36:23] Gerry Scullion: So for people [00:36:25] listening who aren't familiar with any of these services, what does it look like when they have, [00:36:30] do they have to register with tig? Like, do they have to fill in paperwork to become, [00:36:35] you know, under the care of tig? What does that look like? Or is it just a case of a drop in [00:36:40] whenever you feel like it and get to know and build relationships?

[00:36:44] Allen Bobinac: Right. I, I, [00:36:45] there's a, there's a little bit of a distinction here between being Lins Care and, and using the [00:36:50] Lighthouse service. Okay. So the Lighthouse Service is a drop-in center for anyone.

[00:36:54] Passer by: Yeah. [00:36:55]

[00:36:55] Allen Bobinac: So people off the street come in and they use the service and that's it. There's no strings [00:37:00] attached. Yeah. Now, or this changes if this changes if, if you want to [00:37:05] go to rehab.

[00:37:05] Allen Bobinac: So like I said, about 90% of people in the streets, it's either addiction or [00:37:10] trauma, both the combination of two is a hundred percent of the time you wanna get in [00:37:15] this way, or do you wanna go through Trinity? Let's go through, yeah. Okay. So, [00:37:20] and then you get, the way it works is, let's say you [00:37:25] decide you wanna go to rehab today, you are gonna do an assessment, [00:37:30] a comprehensive assessment to see if that's for you.

[00:37:34] Allen Bobinac: When that's [00:37:35] finished, you show up at the Lighthouse for weekly meeting. I call it a [00:37:40] weekly meeting check-In meeting, they call them pre-entry groups.

[00:37:43] Gerry Scullion: Yeah.

[00:37:43] Allen Bobinac: Until there's a bed [00:37:45] available at the same time, you have to call the center once a day to check in. [00:37:50] Whoever calls the most is on the top of the list.

[00:37:52] Allen Bobinac: You have whoever calls the most. Yeah. So you [00:37:55] have to show your willing.

[00:37:56] Passer by: Okay.

[00:37:57] Allen Bobinac: Once you do that and there's a bed available, they send you [00:38:00] down to the rehab center and they have counseling there. They have [00:38:05] sauna there. Gym, it's a very structured program where you wake up at [00:38:10] seven, you clean, you make your bed, you have your breakfast, and then you do [00:38:15] classes all day.

[00:38:16] Allen Bobinac: Where is this now? So it's in, uh, Wickler Mountains. Wickler Mountains.

[00:38:19] Gerry Scullion: [00:38:20] Okay.

[00:38:20] Allen Bobinac: So you got to learn about trauma. You get to learn about all these coping mechanisms [00:38:25] until the program is finished. Right. So it's the longest program in the country, [00:38:30] and according to the stats, it's the most successful. Kind [00:38:35] of recovery rate.

[00:38:36] Allen Bobinac: What's that called again? Tig. That's men's. It's [00:38:40] called Men's Center. Lin's Men's Center. Okay. Men's Rehabilitation Center. And there's one for the women as well. Is there? [00:38:45] There's one for the women, uh, on the sea front. British Bay. Very, [00:38:50] yeah.

[00:38:50] Gerry Scullion: Cross over here when there's no traffic.

[00:38:52] Allen Bobinac: So as I was And then your [00:38:55] inland care?

[00:38:56] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. Can I ask Yeah. Like there's separation there between men [00:39:00] and women. We could probably get into, um, into the [00:39:05] area of like trans support. Um, but generally speaking, if the husband and [00:39:10] wife are both homeless and they both want to do that, how is that handled? [00:39:15]

[00:39:16] Allen Bobinac: Well, a man goes to the men's center, woman goes to the women's center, [00:39:20] and then there's, there's aftercare centers for, [00:39:25] um, for both men and women.

[00:39:27] Allen Bobinac: Okay. And I suppose I was talking about the comprehensive [00:39:30] assessment. A lot of the times that has to do with drugs. Drugs in your [00:39:35] system. Yeah. And I don't wanna get into that 'cause I don't know enough. Yeah. But if, [00:39:40] if it's a husband and wife and they want to go into rehab together, [00:39:45] I'm, I'm not sure if that's gonna work.

[00:39:46] Allen Bobinac: Okay. Number one. But number two, maybe there's a [00:39:50] different center that, uh,

[00:39:51] Gerry Scullion: they can do that.

[00:39:52] Allen Bobinac: Yeah.

[00:39:52] Gerry Scullion: Alright. So [00:39:55] after they've, um, they've gone through that process, [00:40:00] what's the involvement rate with tig? And then is there, you know, they've moved on to the next [00:40:05] stage. Um, there's, is there an, an infrastructure there to support [00:40:10] them as they transition?

[00:40:11] Gerry Scullion: Okay. So number

[00:40:13] Allen Bobinac: one reason why people relapse [00:40:15]

[00:40:15] Passer by: Yeah. Is

[00:40:15] Allen Bobinac: because they do the program. Oftentimes it's 12 weeks. [00:40:20] Right. Very short. And then they go back to where, where they're from [00:40:25] and they go back to everything. So the reason why Lin's [00:40:30] program is successful, because it's, it's a long term program. But then you get to stay in [00:40:35] Graystones for six months at least.

[00:40:37] Allen Bobinac: Some people stay longer actually, [00:40:40] and you're not just thrown out back to where you're from.

[00:40:43] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:40:44] Allen Bobinac: And then, [00:40:45] you know, you know, you, you do work, you do college, you do whatever you want, [00:40:50] and that's why it's successful. And even [00:40:55] if somebody, there's so many kind of, uh, people who go into the community, Brona, [00:41:00] that's her name, she does outreach in all these different communities.

[00:41:03] Allen Bobinac: So really, [00:41:05] even if you, if you've left the program and you need something, you can always [00:41:10] get in touch and people will work with you. Okay.

[00:41:14] Gerry Scullion: So, so [00:41:15] let's talk about the work that you and Jay are doing at Tling at the moment. You mentioned that there's [00:41:20] quite a lot of people working there. Um, oh yeah. But generally, you're, [00:41:25] you're in charge of the Lighthouse.

[00:41:27] Gerry Scullion: Can you talk to me about why it's called the Lighthouse? First of [00:41:30] all?

[00:41:32] Allen Bobinac: Well, the lighthouse was started back in the eighties by [00:41:35] a church called Double Christian Mission. Yeah. So it's just a reference to the [00:41:40] scripture, kind of, uh, this verse from the Bible. Okay. Um, [00:41:45]

[00:41:45] Gerry Scullion: so it's a, it's a beacon effectively, like a, a place, uh, [00:41:50] to help guide people away from, I suppose.

[00:41:52] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. It's a place of, it's a metaphor.

[00:41:53] Allen Bobinac: It's, it's a place of hope.

[00:41:54] Gerry Scullion: [00:41:55] Yeah. Absolutely. So you're, you're the manager of the lighthouse. Yeah. [00:42:00] Um, what other aspects in Tigand, [00:42:05] um, basically are there to support people in that journey? [00:42:10] We're just gotta pass through here. A lot of, a lot of tourists. I'll ask the question in a [00:42:15] sec.

[00:42:18] Gerry Scullion: So we're on our way to the lighthouse. [00:42:20] Um, we're gonna have a, a quick look outside,[00:42:25] [00:42:30] [00:42:35]

[00:42:36] Gerry Scullion: full life of Dublin. Yeah. Um, [00:42:40] talk to me about the lighthouse we mentioned there before. It's not just a place to drop in for [00:42:45] food. Um, it's a place for, for people to network. So [00:42:50] for people to, to get ahead. How often and how [00:42:55] long do people avail of the services typically?

[00:42:59] Allen Bobinac: Um, [00:43:00] so look, that's a very interesting question because of [00:43:05] the answer.

[00:43:05] Allen Bobinac: Yeah. There, there is no [00:43:10] typical person who ends up on the street and uses the lighthouse. Sure. There's so many different types [00:43:15] and at the moment, from all over the world actually. Some [00:43:20] people will end up on the streets for a few weeks. I've seen students, [00:43:25] I've seen tourists, uh, I've seen [00:43:30] people who are 18 and, uh, all they need is just a [00:43:35] small bit of help because they might be working, you know, they might [00:43:40] be studying and maybe they're with you for a few weeks, for a few months, just [00:43:45] using the service for food, for clothing o other people might, might [00:43:50] need a little bit more time.

[00:43:53] Allen Bobinac: And then there's the last [00:43:55] group, and I call it long term homelessness. And [00:44:00] let me explain to you why that's in a different category for me. [00:44:05] Short term homelessness is a person who winds up on the street and moves on fairly [00:44:10] quickly and you don't see them again. They have, you know, they might have other supports, but [00:44:15] they might be, you know, self-sufficient.

[00:44:19] Allen Bobinac: And then there's a group of [00:44:20] people who stay in the street for more than one year. And [00:44:25] generally, like I said before, it's addiction or trauma. Yeah. And, [00:44:30] and there's a big difference between one year and 10 years [00:44:35] now, there's a high probability, if you've been on the street for [00:44:40] one year, you'll be there in 10 years.

[00:44:43] Allen Bobinac: Okay. And the only way you can [00:44:45] get those people off the street is by a very comprehensive system [00:44:50] that will show them what's possible. Because that world, [00:44:55] if you're not careful, will grab you and pull you down and you'll [00:45:00] never get out.

[00:45:00] Passer by: Okay.

[00:45:01] Allen Bobinac: And if it wasn't for such centers, [00:45:05] people would never leave.

[00:45:07] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:45:07] Allen Bobinac: It's impossible [00:45:10] because when you see a person that goes through rehab through the program. [00:45:15] And to see where they're coming from to where they're ending up. [00:45:20] It's, it's so vast. And the way I put it is like this, [00:45:25] let's say you are a normal person. You end up on the street and now you [00:45:30] get back and you're working and you're, you know, successful.

[00:45:34] Allen Bobinac: [00:45:35] You essentially climbed out of this, this big of a hole. But because you're born with [00:45:40] this disease of addiction, let's say now the mountain, [00:45:45] you have to climb it. It's unimaginable.

[00:45:47] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:45:48] Allen Bobinac: So you've climbed so much more than [00:45:50] just to be at the same level. Yeah. So I meet people [00:45:55] with various different challenges and just for them to reach the [00:46:00] same level, we all had to climb a certain mountain, but for certain people [00:46:05] it's, it's really, really, like yeah.

[00:46:08] Allen Bobinac: It's so, so [00:46:10] attacking

[00:46:10] Gerry Scullion: addiction is at the core.

[00:46:12] Allen Bobinac: Yeah.

[00:46:12] Gerry Scullion: Uh, yeah, I'd say so. Yeah. [00:46:15] Yeah. Can I ask about the strategy around tum? [00:46:20] Is that something that you're involved in, you know, where, where the organization is going in five [00:46:25] years? Is that something that you can speak to? [00:46:30] Like how do you um, yeah, sort adapt the service?[00:46:35]

[00:46:35] Gerry Scullion: Well,

[00:46:37] Allen Bobinac: the, the result of the work that you [00:46:40] see today, it, it's all been organic because of the certain needs. [00:46:45] So if you, one of the things that Obi talks about is, um, [00:46:50] when you get people into rehab, some of them are functioning, [00:46:55] actually some you have functioning alcoholics, for example.

[00:46:57] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:46:58] Allen Bobinac: And they're working and then they [00:47:00] go to rehab, and now they're looking to get back to work.[00:47:05]

[00:47:05] Allen Bobinac: And what's happened was they worked for 10 years and now there's this gap of one year. [00:47:10] Yeah. So. When they started working, when TLE started [00:47:15] working with addiction, they realized, oh, there's a gap there. You can't just have a gap in your cv. [00:47:20] So they started working with community employment schemes,

[00:47:23] Passer by: right,

[00:47:24] Allen Bobinac: to get [00:47:25] people working.

[00:47:25] Allen Bobinac: And now there's no gap. Now you, you worked, you know, in Tling for [00:47:30] example, another thing was, uh, the aftercare. [00:47:35] When you do everything for people, then they go back to where they're from and now [00:47:40] they're back on drugs. Obviously something doesn't work.

[00:47:43] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:47:43] Allen Bobinac: So maybe you need [00:47:45] a, an aftercare place. Once they implement the implemented the aftercare place, now [00:47:50] there's less re uh, kind of, uh, relapses, [00:47:55] addiction, uh, education as well.

[00:47:58] Allen Bobinac: You know, [00:48:00] maybe now you are spending time in Lin and you're studying [00:48:05] at the same time. Now there's something to show for it. So all these things that happened, [00:48:10] none of it was planned, but more, it was more so organic and addressing [00:48:15] the needs that you see as you're implementing, uh, a new ch uh, kind of new, um, [00:48:20] I suppose approaches, let's say.

[00:48:21] Allen Bobinac: Okay. So

[00:48:23] Gerry Scullion: who helps shape [00:48:25] the, the service and any modifications to the services [00:48:30] that TIG are responsible for? Is that something yourself and Jay and Aubrey and [00:48:35] they collaborate on? Like if there's new changes, new [00:48:40] improvements that need to be made, how is that done? [00:48:45]

[00:48:45] Allen Bobinac: Well, look, you have the management structure, so, [00:48:50] uh, but I think a lot of it is done, uh, bottom [00:48:55] up because you see the need, you, you [00:49:00] see the needs, and then as long as you address the needs.

[00:49:04] Allen Bobinac: You [00:49:05] know, by kind of a, let's say, feedback approach, [00:49:10] you see the results of those changes. Okay. [00:49:15] So, but the results speak for themselves. I, I would say [00:49:20] it's,

[00:49:21] Gerry Scullion: and can we speak to those results? Like, like Yeah. Understanding the results will [00:49:25] help. Um, we're, we're, we're close by to Lighthouse now, I think. Yeah. Um, [00:49:30] talk to me about the achievements of Tling, like, and the [00:49:35] results, the, the last kind of financial year if you want.

[00:49:38] Gerry Scullion: What does that look like? [00:49:40]

[00:49:40] Allen Bobinac: Well, you, you, you can talk about it in terms of ex public exposure and [00:49:45] all that, but I don't think that's really the measuring stick [00:49:50] between, across the two centers. You have, [00:49:55] let's say 70 people in, in treatment and the, you have fur [00:50:00] further, 40 people in, uh.

[00:50:04] Allen Bobinac: [00:50:05] And then obviously there's other centers as well to do other work. So you,

[00:50:09] Passer by: [00:50:10] you essentially have a hundred people who were living in the [00:50:15] streets and uh, I suppose

[00:50:19] Allen Bobinac: [00:50:20] what, what's the, what's the opposite of surplus actually when, when you're kind of taking access? [00:50:25] Is it the access? I suppose there were a little bit of the, the access of [00:50:30] society just taking, and now you've turned that around where they're actually giving.[00:50:35]

[00:50:35] Allen Bobinac: Okay. So that's a huge net positive for, for any society. Yeah. [00:50:40] And as long they keep making those right moves [00:50:45] people, people become successful. They still have to deal with those, [00:50:50] I suppose, addiction genes. But there's many people that are, [00:50:55] over the years there's been, I think maybe 1500 people who [00:51:00] successfully graduated.

[00:51:01] Allen Bobinac: I know they're out there working. They're, they're not ambassadors of the Glen. [00:51:05] Yeah. Not necessarily, but they're the end result of their work. [00:51:10] And that's, I think that's huge. Yeah. And, uh, that's, [00:51:15] that's how you measure it for me, really, rather than,

[00:51:18] Gerry Scullion: I'm gonna ask you a bit of a [00:51:20] weird question, right. You might say they've all been weird, Jerry, but if you had to [00:51:25] think about the Lin recipe that you'd like to be able to [00:51:30] share with other organizations like Lin, who support people in homelessness [00:51:35]

[00:51:35] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:51:36] Gerry Scullion: What are the key ingredients for that recipe? [00:51:40]

[00:51:40] Allen Bobinac: Okay. Well, Aubrey was actually speaking in Navin the other day. [00:51:45] And, uh, it was, it was this rehab center and essentially [00:51:50] what that place was, it was, it was a rehab [00:51:55] center. It would do the program and that's it. That's the end of the [00:52:00] road. And, uh, humans are much more complex.

[00:52:04] Allen Bobinac: Humans, [00:52:05] as you know, they're very complex, very social creatures, and requires a [00:52:10] lot more, uh, work and support for a person to, [00:52:15] uh, become independent. The way you can equate it to is raising a [00:52:20] child. It seems to me that it's so complex to create [00:52:25] a good person. It, it's a lot, it's a lot easier to, [00:52:30] uh, uh, create a bad person who, who's entitled and, you know, they [00:52:35] think they deserve everything.

[00:52:36] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. You have to guide me, by the way, here. Oh, we're going straight. [00:52:40] Yeah. Okay.

[00:52:40] Allen Bobinac: So really [00:52:45] it starts with leadership, I suppose. Yeah. Starts with people who know what they're doing, people who have all the [00:52:50] experiences, but beyond that, it, it, it's, let's say developing [00:52:55] a community first and foremost, because that then people are part of something.

[00:52:59] Allen Bobinac: I [00:53:00] want the part of something, you're all in the same boat. But there also has to be a logical [00:53:05] approach to it. You have to think about at least one step ahead [00:53:10] because you can do all this work with people and if [00:53:15] there's, if there's no logic to it, nothing's gonna change. But because they're all [00:53:20] gonna end up where they came from.

[00:53:22] Allen Bobinac: So that's, that's my [00:53:25] assessment of the Tling model.

[00:53:27] Passer by: Okay.

[00:53:28] Allen Bobinac: But then little by little [00:53:30] you get to empower people. And [00:53:35] now when they have the power, when they have, you know, their skills, [00:53:40] they improve your service.

[00:53:41] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:53:42] Allen Bobinac: So one person will improve one [00:53:45] aspect, another person will improve another aspect. And now you have a hundred people changing everything for, [00:53:50] for the better.

[00:53:50] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. I have another question that's a bit left field [00:53:55] and I'm kind of leaning into you 'cause my mic, we had a bit of an audio problem. As regards [00:54:00] trauma and working with people with trauma, what are the key [00:54:05] things that you need to keep at the front of your mind when you're interacting with people with trauma [00:54:10] from your own experience?

[00:54:12] Allen Bobinac: Yeah. Well, look, I would have a similar [00:54:15] experience myself. It, it's, it's very hard to trust people [00:54:20] at least when you're starting out. So you almost have to be social [00:54:25] domesticated in a sense, because in many ways you're a wild [00:54:30] animal and, and that it's like working [00:54:35] with, with a horse, for example. The horse has to trust you at first, and [00:54:40] so it, it is just a long process and that's why places like the Lighthouse are [00:54:45] important because you can actually spend a lot of time with people and you can [00:54:50] build a trust, right?

[00:54:51] Allen Bobinac: Because if it's just a factory, I. People are [00:54:55] just numbers and then you lose out on, on the work that actually matters. [00:55:00]

[00:55:00] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:55:01] Allen Bobinac: So nothing happens in a day [00:55:05] and uh, you just carry on day by day. And [00:55:10] I find that if you are doing your best, anyone that's doing their best, [00:55:15] you see the results down the road. Yeah.

[00:55:18] Allen Bobinac: So you just [00:55:20] do your best every day.

[00:55:21] Gerry Scullion: Okay.

[00:55:22] Allen Bobinac: But also, like I was saying, you [00:55:25] need the right people.

[00:55:25] Gerry Scullion: You need the right people. Yeah. If you had to give us a [00:55:30] couple of tips and finding those right people, what advice would you give to people [00:55:35] like to find the right people? What does that mean? Well, number

[00:55:38] Allen Bobinac: one, number one is [00:55:40] obviously leadership.

[00:55:40] Allen Bobinac: You have to, you, you need the right person at the helm of it all [00:55:45] like undoubtable. But number two is you also have to [00:55:50] create a, uh. A joint mission in a sense. [00:55:55] People want to be part of something that's bigger than themselves. And when you see something that's, [00:56:00] that's of great quality and uh, you see [00:56:05] what people are doing, you see the mission.

[00:56:07] Allen Bobinac: You want to be part of that world. Yeah. [00:56:10] So if you have a product that isn't great, [00:56:15] you're gonna attract lesser kind of versions of people. But if you have the [00:56:20] best product, then you attract the best people. Now the [00:56:25] problem with the NGOs is there's, there's two [00:56:30] ways I can talk about this number. I, I'll start with this.

[00:56:33] Allen Bobinac: Number one is you [00:56:35] can't just get a person of from college, from Trinity College, for example. Yeah. They just graduated. [00:56:40] Get them here. Think, think they're gonna do well. Doesn't work like that. [00:56:45] There will be shark infested waters. [00:56:50] But number two is you need, [00:56:55] what was I gonna say? Um,[00:57:00]

[00:57:02] Allen Bobinac: my first point was more important than the second, but I [00:57:05] had to start with the second one.

[00:57:06] Gerry Scullion: That's all right. Yeah. Shark festive orders. Getting somebody outta [00:57:10] Trinity.

[00:57:11] Allen Bobinac: Um, okay, well I'll just say this then. Um, [00:57:15] the right people for what you're doing are already out there. Yeah. [00:57:20] So you just need to make sure you get the person who's well suited [00:57:25] for, for what you're doing, the culture of your organization.[00:57:30]

[00:57:30] Allen Bobinac: Yeah. I almost find it that it, it's almost like a [00:57:35] mix. You have to find the right person who can fit in, [00:57:40] but also a person that's gonna bring something to the table. [00:57:45] And if you're talking. Actually, no, I remember what the second point was. Is it over here [00:57:50] ticking? No, we just passed it. Alright,

[00:57:51] Gerry Scullion: let's go back that way.

[00:57:52] Allen Bobinac: But, uh, lemme tell you what the second point was. [00:57:55] If you're talking about[00:58:00]

[00:58:00] Gerry Scullion: here,

[00:58:04] Gerry Scullion: talking [00:58:05] about hiring the right people.

[00:58:07] Allen Bobinac: No, I'll tell you what the other point was, which is very important. Oh

[00:58:09] Gerry Scullion: [00:58:10] one. Yeah.

[00:58:12] Allen Bobinac: So if you're talking about the NGOs

[00:58:14] Passer by: [00:58:15] Yeah.

[00:58:15] Allen Bobinac: It's, it's, the funding is always very limited. Yeah. [00:58:20] And, uh, obviously it's very messy work, [00:58:25] so sometimes it happens that the best of the best, they're [00:58:30] not interested in joining this world.

[00:58:31] Allen Bobinac: Right. So [00:58:35] sometimes you're left, you, you work in this field. [00:58:40] And the most competent people, it's very easy for them to go into a industry that's [00:58:45] more clean.

[00:58:45] Passer by: Yeah.

[00:58:46] Allen Bobinac: So when you combine that with my previous point that I said, you need to [00:58:50] find obviously the, the best person for the job, the person who, they're [00:58:55] not necessarily from college, they have real life experience, but [00:59:00] at the top of it all, you have to find the best person you can possibly find [00:59:05] and make sure they stay there.

[00:59:07] Allen Bobinac: And how, how do you do that? I find that, that [00:59:10] if you give people autonomy and ownership, it's almost like [00:59:15] this. You are starting out and starting a new initiative. Yeah. [00:59:20] You plan it out. You do it your way, you bring your experience and [00:59:25] knowledge and uh, you take the full ownership of it [00:59:30] and, and then you're gonna give your best.

[00:59:32] Allen Bobinac: Absolutely. Love that. Do you wanna see inside or love that? [00:59:35]

[00:59:35] Passer by: Yeah. Possible. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:59:36] Allen Bobinac: So anyway, there's this, uh. This was one of my [00:59:40] ideas actually it's, it's off now, but it's a neon sign, a bright blue neon [00:59:45] sign. So what happens here is the queue gets very, very long. [00:59:50] See all the way to the hotel Sometimes.

[00:59:52] Allen Bobinac: Yeah. Most evenings. [00:59:55] And people don't know what it is, you know? But important thing about it [01:00:00] is if you are a regular person driving to Dublin from the south side, you're [01:00:05] always going down Pier Street. Yeah. They change the rules. Run away a little bit two weeks [01:00:10] ago, but this jam packed with cars. And I [01:00:15] said, why don't we do a neon sign that says Tling at the lighthouse.

[01:00:18] Allen Bobinac: And now every person [01:00:20] driving down this road, they see this side. They don't know what's inside, [01:00:25] but they, they see it. Yeah. So in the night when you're driving down, [01:00:30] you know. You see all these buildings and then you see this bright pian sign [01:00:35] with 50 people queuing to get in.

[01:00:36] Gerry Scullion: And that queue is really important because it lets people know that [01:00:40] there is a problem here.

[01:00:41] Gerry Scullion: There's there's demand. It plays a role of visibility. [01:00:45]

[01:00:45] Allen Bobinac: Exactly. Yeah. And I didn't always understand this,

[01:00:49] Passer by: [01:00:50] but

[01:00:50] Allen Bobinac: now I know that

[01:00:51] Passer by: there are certain issues. Yeah. I want the

[01:00:54] Allen Bobinac: [01:00:55] visible,

[01:00:55] Passer by: very

[01:00:55] Allen Bobinac: important. You see it

[01:00:57] Passer by: very, sometimes

[01:00:58] Allen Bobinac: this is the hide, [01:01:00] but, uh, they'll be situated here between all these [01:01:05] tech, successful tech companies entering the college.

[01:01:08] Allen Bobinac: Yeah. There's a [01:01:10] hotel there. Very famous hotel. This is very out of place. [01:01:15] But in a, in a sense it's, it works.

[01:01:17] Passer by: That's great. We, yeah. [01:01:20] Hello.

[01:01:23] Allen Bobinac: I'm just being interviewed, so, uh. [01:01:25] This is Rachel, by the way. Nice to Rachel, I'm sorry. Nice

[01:01:28] Gerry Scullion: to meet you. We're doing a [01:01:30] podcast. This guy is great, isn't he?

[01:01:32] Passer by: He's a superhero[01:01:35]

[01:01:36] Allen Bobinac: guys. [01:01:40] So, um, this is the cafe. So cool. So if you look at the song over, [01:01:45] there's just one of the things of organized there. So [01:01:50] the South, south, south African embassy are gonna bring their, their [01:01:55] food, their, their staff, their musicians, and then we're gonna have a whole event out [01:02:00] of it. This is so cool. So this is it really?[01:02:05]

[01:02:06] Allen Bobinac: You sit about 40 people.

[01:02:08] Passer by: Yeah.

[01:02:09] Allen Bobinac: And uh, [01:02:10] like I said, big queue outside. People come in as two people are [01:02:15] leaving. There's two available seats. Two new people come in.

[01:02:18] Passer by: But

[01:02:18] Allen Bobinac: you should see this place. [01:02:20] It doesn't take much to fill it up.

[01:02:21] Passer by: Yeah,

[01:02:22] Allen Bobinac: you can barely fit. Once [01:02:25] you have a musician here and you have other activities, it changes the, the way [01:02:30] I, I came up with this term, I say it's a homeless cafe.[01:02:35]

[01:02:35] Allen Bobinac: What that is, is when you're talking about places like this, a, a term that's easy to use is a [01:02:40] homeless shelter. And I think that that's kind of pretty self-explanatory as [01:02:45] to the change. One, one kind of approach is [01:02:50] very basic. The other one takes everything into account.

[01:02:52] Gerry Scullion: Yeah.

[01:02:53] Allen Bobinac: So,

[01:02:54] Gerry Scullion: but this is so [01:02:55] cool, like, for, without being too discriminatory, [01:03:00] it doesn't look like a homeless cafe, surely because of the, the [01:03:05] tourism kind of flow of people here.

[01:03:08] Gerry Scullion: Do you get people coming in here and looking to, [01:03:10]

[01:03:10] Allen Bobinac: to purchase food? Is that an option as well? No, but I'll tell you a story. Yeah. A [01:03:15] few times people, uh, joined the queue thinking it was a night club. Really? Yeah.

[01:03:19] Gerry Scullion: Yeah. [01:03:20] Like I'm not surprised, like when you. It's, it's, it's beautiful. It's, it's as nice as [01:03:25] any other place and I think that's really important.

[01:03:26] Passer by: Yeah.

[01:03:27] Gerry Scullion: You know, for people to feel like, actually, you know what, I'm not going into a [01:03:30] school canteen. They're going into somewhere where they're shown there's respect and they're being heard [01:03:35] and they're being seen and they're being well fed and well looked after. Yeah.

[01:03:38] Allen Bobinac: Yeah. It's certainly a [01:03:40] unique place and, and a unique approach.

[01:03:42] Gerry Scullion: Curtis, this, this was amazing. Can we see downstairs? Yeah, yeah, yeah, [01:03:45] please.

[01:03:49] Allen Bobinac: [01:03:50] So, um, Hey Owen,[01:03:55]

[01:03:55] Allen Bobinac: so I'll show you this thing, actually, dunno if it's relevant to you, but you, [01:04:00] this was just a plain piece of wood and you kind of try to [01:04:05] make the most out of everything. This is what clothes kind of come, comes, uh, from. [01:04:10] And, uh, yeah, I'm in Irish for a thousand. Welcome. What's, uh, [01:04:15] downstairs? So downstairs we have the offices and then we have, uh, fridge and [01:04:20] freezer and, uh, old storage.

[01:04:22] Allen Bobinac: Nice. So let me just show you the storage first. [01:04:25] So this is for example, the barber's chair for, so [01:04:30] it's all voluntary based. So let's say you have barbers in every day. Every [01:04:35] day you'll give out per service. 10, uh, 10 haircuts.

[01:04:37] Gerry Scullion: Okay. I lot about showers. [01:04:40] That's a big thing.

[01:04:40] Allen Bobinac: Showers is a different, uh, we don't have showers.

[01:04:43] Allen Bobinac: Don't have showers here. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. [01:04:45] So this is kind of the clothing part. So clothing [01:04:50] is, is huge. Um, because there's, you can't wash your clothes anywhere. [01:04:55] Yeah. If you live in the street, that's one of the things you have to keep reusing the. [01:05:00] The stuff you get from places like this. Yeah. So donations come in, you sort them, put them [01:05:05] up, and then later when someone's asking for something, it's easy to find and give it out.

[01:05:09] Allen Bobinac: Okay. So [01:05:10] always in need of clothes. And I, the way I said is men's clothes specifically, because [01:05:15] 90% of people who come here are men.

[01:05:17] Gerry Scullion: Okay. So can people wash their [01:05:20] clothes here?

[01:05:20] Allen Bobinac: No. No, no, no, no. You don't do that. I mean, every current is being used. Absolutely. [01:05:25] Where do you. Whatever. Yeah.

[01:05:27] Gerry Scullion: It's not just one washing machine.

[01:05:28] Gerry Scullion: It would be like Yeah. [01:05:30] 10 15 of them. Yeah. Um, this is amazing. Absolutely amazing. It was much [01:05:35] bigger than I thought it was gonna be. Um, look, it's been absolutely [01:05:40] incredible to speak with you and learn about your perspective. This is a, uh, [01:05:45] an exemplar for what I've seen. And, you know, I encourage people to check out Tiging.[01:05:50]

[01:05:50] Gerry Scullion: Is it possible for people to donate to Tiging? Is that something that you can do? Gosh, it's, it's all up on the [01:05:55] website. All on the website. Yeah. And we can do that. And I encourage people to do that support, you know, [01:06:00] uh, everything that Allen and Jay and Aubrey are doing here and the rest of the team, they're all doing [01:06:05] amazing work.

[01:06:06] Gerry Scullion: Um, I'll put a link to your LinkedIn 'cause uh, I think that was [01:06:10] how we connected, um, but also to Tig Lynn's website, um, for people to [01:06:15] follow. Um, anything else you wanna give a shout out to before we wrap up the episode? [01:06:20] No, I think that's all. No, that absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much for your time.

[01:06:23] Gerry Scullion: Thank [01:06:25] [01:06:30] you.

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