Bringing Design Closer with Gerry Scullion

Justyna Turek ‘A fresh perspective:The Role of Human-Centered Design in Sustainability’

John Carter
May 23, 2023
34
 MIN
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Justyna Turek ‘A fresh perspective:The Role of Human-Centered Design in Sustainability’

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In this conversation I caught up Justyna Turek, founder of many businesses and based in Sweden. Justyna works most often with Next Agents and Change Pilots in Poland. We speak about the work that they have been focussed on for over a decade, sustainability and design. I wanted to explore how they got into it, as I know there are many people that I coach who are interested in this space, but maybe feel unsure on how to work more in this space. We all know the crisis that we face globally with global warming, so aligning to Earth Centered Design Principles is probably not a massive leap for most of us, but just how would you get started…

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Episode Transcript

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[00:00:00] So

[00:00:00] Gerry McGovern: for listeners of the podcast, they'll know that we speak about human-centered design, obviously, and service design quite a lot. People who are looking to get into work and opportunities that are more aligned to the values on this podcast, like sustainability and life center design. What are the critical skills that you feel designers need to have, and what are you seeing amongst emerging talent in terms of the gaps?

[00:00:24] Justyna Turek: I love this question. I think this is the most critical question like nowadays, because I do coach a lot, since five years, I coach a lot. Designers in a different moment, but also managers and CEO and board members of a company. So I can have little bit intake also on that. But for people who as me work or want to start working with the sustainability, the biggest skill.

[00:00:50] Justyna Turek: That I can propose or suggest is a critical thinking because especially with sustainability, depending where you live. And what is the approach to this [00:01:00] economical approach to, and business approach to sustainability designers? As I am, I was facing a lot of, you know, like, oh, sustainability. No, this is too hard.

[00:01:09] Justyna Turek: It's gonna cost us.

[00:01:14] Gerry McGovern: Hello and welcome to Bringing Design Closer On. This is H C D. My name is Jerry s Scalian. I'm the founder of, this is H cd. I'm a designer, educator, design coach, and podcaster, obviously based in the wonderful city of Dublin, Ireland. Now our goal here is to have conversations that inspire and help move the dive forward for organizations to become more human-centered in their approach to solving complex business and societal problems.

[00:01:38] Gerry McGovern: In this conversation, I call Uncle Hut Turk, founder of many businesses and based in Sweden. HU works most often with next agents. And change pilots in Poland, and we speak about the work that they've been focused on for over a decade, and that's sustainability. Sustainability and design. I wanted to explore how they got into it as I another, there are many people [00:02:00] in out there that I'm coaching currently who are really interested in this space, but maybe feel unsure about how to work more in this space.

[00:02:07] Gerry McGovern: We all know that the crisis that we face globally with global warming, so aligning to earth center design principles is probably not a massive leap for most of us. But how do you get started? Let's jump straight into it in Houston. I'm delighted to have you here in the podcast, and this is H c D. Um, we'd be messaging back and forth for a couple of weeks.

[00:02:27] Gerry McGovern: Um, uh, excited to have you here, but maybe for our listeners, let's start off and tell us a little bit about yourself and where you're from.

[00:02:35] Justyna Turek: Perfect. Thank you so much for invitation. Um, I'm Origin was born, uh, and raised in Poland, but I've been moving and traveling for. Different places. So it's really hard to define myself, like a hundred percent Polish person.

[00:02:52] Justyna Turek: Mm-hmm. Uh, but recently, since half year, or even a little bit more, I moved to Sweden, so I'm trying to become a Swedish person now. [00:03:00]

[00:03:00] Gerry McGovern: Very good. Um, so what was it about Sweden that attracted you? Mm-hmm.

[00:03:05] Justyna Turek: Mm. That's a nice question. Um, I think at this moment of my needs and time in my life, I really want to have a system that is really well organized.

[00:03:16] Justyna Turek: Mm-hmm. And, and some kind of order. Uh, and that's what, you know, I get from, uh, Sweden. That's my vibe that I'm reading that is here. And it's actually from a perspective of services and the system. When I'm here, when I'm here, like experiencing that, it's what I thought it's gonna be. So everything is really nicely, nicely designed, let's put it that way, especially services.

[00:03:38] Justyna Turek: Uh, but the bigger part of that is the nature. I just love snow. I just love here like, you know, beautiful nature. So, um, I'm really feeling really good right now here. Very

[00:03:49] Gerry McGovern: good. When you finished university in Poland mm-hmm. Um, you traveled quite a bit. You went to, you know, Paris and New York and stuff.

[00:03:58] Gerry McGovern: Yeah. What, what were you [00:04:00] searching for during those stages?

[00:04:02] Justyna Turek: Ah, that's a nice question. Um, so I finished, I was, I was studying glass design, so I was studying art. That's my profession. My last, my, the other part of my life, that's my profession. But being a designer, as an artist especially, it's everything that you're pushing things from your ego.

[00:04:21] Justyna Turek: And I was quite tired of that. I wanted to change the narrative because I was, I start kind of questioning myself, my art, why? Why I'm doing that? Who is using that, you know, this typical designer questions. Mm-hmm. Who is on the other side of the, of this part? So I decide just to, to stop everything. Um, meaning that I stopped my art career and I decide to just to travel and just to get, uh, practical knowledge about, uh, being a designer ab about services, about the product.

[00:04:53] Justyna Turek: Like all the process that go be before. You actually gonna design something and that, you [00:05:00] know, this feeling gets me to, to Paris, to France to be there for a little bit for two years. I guess that was something around that one. Then I moved to New York for some time, also was really close to the design scene, to like being really in the middle of the action.

[00:05:14] Justyna Turek: Uh, where can I, you know, Really get the experience from the people who are doing that every day. So I kind of, uh, was against the, the, the knowledge, let's put it that way. Like the tei, I was like, no more tei about design. I wanna do and I want to do was like, you know, idea what if like person that was this.

[00:05:35] Justyna Turek: Really like hot hotspot for, for design. Uh, that was like 10 years ago, I guess. 11 years ago, I guess. Maybe in New York. Yeah. Okay.

[00:05:44] Gerry McGovern: So you mentioned there like the, the deep craving for the doing, for actually getting your hands dirty. You've got a number of businesses that you are involved in. Change pilots in Poland, um, next agents as well.

[00:05:59] Gerry McGovern: [00:06:00] Um, what's the, The sort of understanding of having so many different channels for delivering work and what's driving that? Hmm.

[00:06:10] Justyna Turek: So for me, how my brain works, my brain works the best. Um, when I have the things to keep me occupied, meaning that I have ideas, I can explore certain topics and I can deliver them and next change pilots first.

[00:06:27] Justyna Turek: That was a company that I established with my partner, business partner, Hendrix Taki. It was like 10 years ago, so it was totally different how we start the business. And now with the next agents here in Sweden, it's like kind of continuation of what we, what we were just exploring. Mm-hmm. And to be honest, like being a designer, you always overlapping projects, you always overlapping ideas, businesses, organizations that you work with.

[00:06:54] Justyna Turek: It's like ongoing work. And for me, it just keep me alive. It's keep my brain [00:07:00] flexible and it's keep me, uh, being up to date. So, for example, with Next Agents, we do the sustainability as innovation strategy. So we are really deep on this topic with the change pilots, we do a lot on, um, On changes when company are going through changes like with the smallman, with the product and services also connected with sustainability, but it's a different, uh, intensity depending on which project.

[00:07:27] Justyna Turek: Um, so yes, you can, we can, we can do this, you can do this other design designer, but what is really needed and important, and I'm not saying that, oh, fake it till you make it or you're gonna do this, just push it. You need to really have a good motivation and habits, and I'm quite good with the, I'm a sport person, so whatever I do in a sport, I have the training, you know, like to follow up.

[00:07:52] Justyna Turek: I also have the same rules and schedule when I work. So that's how I can, you know, manage to, to do couple of sports [00:08:00] at the same time and do a couple of business at the same

[00:08:02] Gerry McGovern: time. Very good. Well, you're, you're doing an awful lot. Like, you know, there's, there's no doubt about that when you look at your LinkedIn scroll of times to see a business that you're not working with at the moment.

[00:08:14] Gerry McGovern: Goods that I see that you're. You know, kind of the common thread between all of them seems to be the human-centered perspective and the life center perspective around sustainability. Walk me through, um, the journey from how you got to this point in your life, not your career, but your life. Like, what, what is it that's, um, given you the purpose to, to drive in that direction?

[00:08:39] Justyna Turek: That's really beautiful question. And, um, we can go back to this moment when I. Decide that I wanna, I don't wanna push from my ego what I do. I wanna observe, I wanna know people, I want to get more involved in this process. Um mm-hmm. And I think that was this moment, 10, 15 [00:09:00] years ago, that I knew what, what I don't wanna do in life.

[00:09:04] Justyna Turek: I don't wanna, I don't wanna get from the ego perspective all the time. So for me, being connected to the Human Center Planning Center, like, like really being close to this topic is every time to try to sing that it's not about me. And it's the most beautiful lesson that you can do every day as a designer.

[00:09:24] Justyna Turek: Open the topic up, be with the client, or like, work on something. It's not about me. I do things for something else. I do things for environment, I do for people, for society and et cetera. And during this path of 15 years as a designer, I get so many moments, so many projects that I couldn't just, you know, flourish in this topic.

[00:09:45] Justyna Turek: I could really get deep on that and, and try to, you know, um, try to carry on my vision. But what I think it's. Help me, what helps me to be the way, how I am as a designer. It's also my own [00:10:00] personal value. Um, because we, without this, you know, it's like, practice what you preach. How can I talk about human-centered design, nature center design, like, like, you know, all of the sustainability stuff without actually filling it as a user, as a first user.

[00:10:16] Justyna Turek: Um, so. Obviously the diet. Obviously the sport, obviously the way of living. I've been living in really weird places and really weird construction. Like, you know, like natural building construction. Like, like you know, I used to live in a castle. It's a true story. I used to live in a castle in France Nice.

[00:10:39] Justyna Turek: For nine months. Nice. Uh, I was baby babysitting the castle. Amazing story. But I was living in the Europe, you know, like this Mongolian y for three years. Wow. So my, my own life is an inspiration for me. Like how I can decide, you know, how I want to live, what are the sustainable choices of, of Living Castle is not [00:11:00] sustainable, but I needed to experience that.

[00:11:01] Justyna Turek: Like, okay, this is, I don't want that, for example, uh, with the s for example, like, what are the other way of like having a house, uh, you know, like, uh, making hi, uh, you know, make it warm like food, water, and et cetera. And you know, the same with the, with the sport, with the living way. Like what I'm buying, what I'm not buying, how I'm traveling.

[00:11:24] Justyna Turek: So I've been traveling a lot for the last 15 years, but every, every year I'm making decisions and I'm cutting the travels, obviously, because I don't wanna travel so much by plane, obviously. So this allows me. When I talk with my clients, when I work in design to have this argument that is possible or to feel like, okay, I have a right to say to the others that we can change.

[00:11:50] Justyna Turek: Uh, so I need to have this connection and I think this is the fuel that actually keep me going as a designer.

[00:11:56] Gerry McGovern: Okay. So, so what are the bits in your own life that you feel like you need to [00:12:00] change that might, other listeners might, might kind of benefit from?

[00:12:06] Justyna Turek: Uh, the things that I need to change in my life are, I think I need to change in my life.

[00:12:11] Justyna Turek: Yeah. Uh, for sure, for sure. Internet consumption. Yeah, guilty here. I'm not a saint. I also get addicted. You know, Netflix is not my friend. It's like we have a love and hate relationship, obviously, so I'm not gonna lie that everything is perfect. Um, but to be honest, the, the focus, this is something I also wanna change, um, because with the time, and also as a designer, I recently noticed that.

[00:12:39] Justyna Turek: Obviously before I could, I could be the employee on the month, meaning that I could be focusing on so many things. I could be multitasking. Now I feel with the se seniority that I having, that I need to just, I want to maybe focus on less, so it's not actually bringing more stuff [00:13:00] foot on the plate. Right now is actually taking out the food that doesn't serves me and the projects maybe that they're good to close or maybe to give to the other people.

[00:13:10] Justyna Turek: So I'm at this moment that I'm trying to change to find a way, like what is the perfect combination of the projects? And maybe the inten Intensivity, how I'm involved in the projects. Because many projects that I used to run, I was the main person on the, you know, like running person, like c e o, co-founder doing many things at the same time.

[00:13:31] Justyna Turek: Yeah. So now this moment is like, okay, let's have a reflection. What is working? What is not working? If I'm keeping something on my plate, then I need to have a really strong argument why. Uh, so this is the biggest changes I would say from my own personal. Um, life that is happening as a designer also.

[00:13:50] Gerry McGovern: All right.

[00:13:51] Gerry McGovern: So what is it about, um, sustainability in human-centered design that aligns to your purpose? Because I, uh, when we were back and [00:14:00] forth mm-hmm. There before, it seems like there's something underpinning that, that whole kind of drive to, to become more aware. Like, where is that coming from for yourself? Hmm.

[00:14:12] Justyna Turek: I'm really, so for me, the biggest inspiration is the nature when I'm thinking about design and especially sustainability because there is, um, in my opinion, waste is a human invention and waste doesn't exist in the nature. Yeah. So my ultimatum is always in the design. Ask the question. Is the waste, like what is it this design waste or not?

[00:14:37] Justyna Turek: How can we change it? Is it actually needed? How can we look at the nature and get expired? So to be honest, it's like my sustainability intake is always about reducing, obviously repurposing and looking at the product service or. Concept from a totally new perspective. Like what if this [00:15:00] material is not existing?

[00:15:01] Justyna Turek: What if we need to change it? What if this can be a service? So I would say that my, my sustainable sustainability approach is on that actually a lot, uh, when I'm working. And obviously the economic aspect, social aspect, environmental aspect is the three things that, um, are like. You know, like the starting the base point, starting point, whatever, if I'm working with the client, the same, if I'm working with the other designers the same and et cetera.

[00:15:30] Justyna Turek: So this is the, the approach that I'm having, especially on sustainability.

[00:15:35] Gerry McGovern: Okay. So for listeners of the podcast, they'll know that, uh, we speak about human-centered design, obviously, and service design quite a lot. Um mm-hmm. People who are looking to get into work and opportunities that are more aligned to the values on this podcast, like sustainability and life center design.

[00:15:55] Gerry McGovern: Mm-hmm. What are the skills, the critical skills that you feel, um, designers [00:16:00] need to have, uh, and what are you seeing amongst emerging talent in terms of the gaps?

[00:16:06] Justyna Turek: I love this question. I think this is the most critical question, like, uh, nowadays, because I, I do coach a lot since five years. I coach a lot designers in a different moment, but also, uh, managers and CEO o and board members of the company.

[00:16:23] Justyna Turek: So I can have little bit intake also on that. But for, for people who, as me work or want to start working with the sustainability, the biggest skill that I can. Propose or suggest mm-hmm. Is a critical, critical thinking because especially with sustainability, depending where you live and what is the approach to this economical approach to, and business approach to sustainability?

[00:16:50] Justyna Turek: Designers. As I am, I was facing a lot of, uh, you know, like, uh, sustainability, no, this is too hard. It's gonna cost us, and it's like questioning [00:17:00] and. For my perspective as a designer, it's really hard. It's really important to have this critical, um, critical, critical thinking approach. Also, to be able to question sustainability with a, with a client, to not to take it as a granted and not to tell a client, oh, this is gonna sa uh, save you.

[00:17:20] Justyna Turek: Everything is gonna save you. It's not. So let's sit with the client. Yeah, let's have a critical thinking and let's decide like, yes, sustainability for this department. No sustainability for that. What does it mean? Because sustainability is so many details. So is it multifaceted? Is it, yeah. Product, service, supply chain, logistically, blah, blah, blah.

[00:17:40] Justyna Turek: So to be able to. To trust yourself and be confident with yourself, like, okay, I can switch on critical thinking, on sustainability. I don't need to take it as a granted, as a beautiful utopian, and then I'm gonna, you know, try to make my client also believe in that. Be critical. Maybe in some [00:18:00] parts, uh, you know, in some industries sustainability is not the answer.

[00:18:05] Justyna Turek: Yet, maybe, maybe it's the beginning part. So I would say trust to yourself, confident to yourself, critical thinking towards sustainability to work with sustainability. Hmm. I think that would be the four. Yeah. That would be the package that would package

[00:18:21] Gerry McGovern: to, um, become an expert in all the news items related to sustainability.

[00:18:28] Gerry McGovern: To be able to have those conversations with, with your, with your leaders.

[00:18:32] Justyna Turek: No, no, no. Don't. To be honest with Sus, I mean, with sustainability 10 years ago it was easy because there was not so many, I mean, it was called differently than sustainability. Yeah. Mm-hmm. There was a different, I don't remember the term that was a different way of talking about it, but.

[00:18:48] Justyna Turek: Okay. Right now we have so many hyper specialization towards sustainability, but to be honest, i I, as a designer, you don't need to get crazy and like, oh, I need to now know how to, [00:19:00] you know, not zero or like, I need to calculate this one. I need to know that, et cetera. You don't need to like start really slow, really general and try to find your niche, like, oh, maybe it's a klin tech.

[00:19:14] Justyna Turek: Then just go for it. Maybe it's a zero waste. Maybe it's a construction industry, sustainability. Try to find your, your own niche, but you don't need to get all of all of the topics at the same time. I'm not the expert in all sustainability aspects. Um, that would take so much years. And obviously they're like, you know, details, material, resources.

[00:19:38] Justyna Turek: So try to. Eat a little step by step to be honest and the right, right, right hood, like right topics on sustainability.

[00:19:48] Gerry McGovern: So can you gimme an example of some of the, the projects that you might be involved in that you're happy to talk about? And what role did you play in, in those kind of projects and what kind activities [00:20:00] did you do?

[00:20:00] Justyna Turek: Oh, that's, that's lovely. So especially on sustainability, uh, yeah, I'm working now more with the scan, um, uh, scandin market. But the recent, the most exciting project was about supply chain, so service design, service blueprint, customer journey. And it was just so big because there was so, uh, a huge project, a startup on, uh, on, uh, reusing and, uh, Owning not owning the, the material, the, the, the, the plastic itself.

[00:20:34] Justyna Turek: So it was so deep that I thought, I told my team that I have been working 10 years in sustainability to do this project over limitation of my almost knowledge. You know, when you have a final boss in a game, you playing the final boss. This project was like a final boss for me because I needed to. Like get to the, to some spurs that I'd never experienced before as a [00:21:00] designer.

[00:21:00] Justyna Turek: Um, and it was really hard on, on service blueprint cause there was so much elements, so many changes, so many micro things were happening there. So for me as a designer, it was like, you know, final boss, beautiful painting and, and also supporting my team because, um, You know, like as, as a founder, as a project manager, as a driving force, uh, I want to also support my team.

[00:21:28] Justyna Turek: And I've been doing that a lot, like, uh, to, to have this confidence to tell them that this is the right direction. No, we need to step, we need to talk with the client. So quite often I'm also in, uh, I'm also involved and responsible for talking with the client. So, you know, playing a ping pong between my team so they can focus and so they can work and they, they can do their magic.

[00:21:51] Justyna Turek: And then still to me, I need to be related to every element and then to be able to talk with the client, have a session with with the [00:22:00] client, and then go back to my team and then get it all together meeting. So that's my role, which is actually like a glue everywhere, but I need to also know what exactly is happening in the project.

[00:22:14] Justyna Turek: Because I'm also like responsible for quality. Um, so that was the one of the project that I, I think all my team, we needed to take vacation afterwards. Okay. Because it was so demanding.

[00:22:26] Gerry McGovern: So what, what are the outcomes that, um, the client is looking to achieve, and how do you help them get there?

[00:22:34] Justyna Turek: Mm-hmm. So for the client, especially with sustainability, they want to have a roadmap.

[00:22:41] Justyna Turek: And the roadmap in the man, like a handbook. And this is quite often what we are supporting them. Like, okay, this is the thing that you as a company you can do. And obviously with sustainability you need to put the time on it. Like you can do small things depending on the company. Like, [00:23:00] so it's really hard to give like a general, uh, you need to do this in half year, only one year.

[00:23:05] Justyna Turek: No, it's need to take time. So we also telling them, This is optional. This is not optional. This is defined by you, this and your team. So in this kind of recommendation or handbook, we are taking all the elements into consideration, like really the situation of the client, because in the end, this is the success of sustainability as their strategy.

[00:23:30] Justyna Turek: How they gonna do this, how they gonna prepare, get prepared, and quite often, In the moment when we are working on this, you know, recommendation, the final document, let's put it that way, I quite often, I'm the person who is talking and preparing the team on the client's side because the biggest mistake is to give a raw, uh, report.

[00:23:53] Justyna Turek: To the company without preparing, talking to the employees that they're gonna actually [00:24:00] implement that. So at the same time, I'm calling that mass massaging. I'm massaging teams. I'm talking with them like trying to, you know, see where they are, how to prepare them. Well do some workshops. And then we have the guidance, we have the recommendation that are really deeply rooted, uh, into the context of the organization, what they ready for, or maybe not.

[00:24:22] Justyna Turek: And to be honest, some of the companies are coming back to us after 2, 3, 5 years, and they're saying like, oh, we just opened the second, uh, chapter. We just o like, we just, we just did one thing. So, to be honest, it's like really, uh, really being, learning to be patient, uh, with the client, especially on deliverables because they will never, ever will be able to do everything by the book.

[00:24:48] Justyna Turek: When they receive, like in one year. Okay. It's always taking time. Well,

[00:24:52] Gerry McGovern: what are the kind of things that, the recommendations, um, that, that are delivered to the clients? Like, what are the things that they [00:25:00] expected or, you know, are, are you hopeful that they will achieve apart from the waste, reducing waste, we re realize that's one thing, but what about the decision making processes around deciding what gets created and what gets killed?

[00:25:16] Justyna Turek: Hmm, that's a good question. I would say that I would start that this, everything, what is. I would say 80% of of the results or 70 are defined in a briefing moment. What kind of areas we wanna tackle. So for example, the company saying, oh, we wanna do the production, or we do the, we wanna do our operational system or maybe supply chain.

[00:25:38] Justyna Turek: And then we are like defining is it big or not, how we gonna work with them? Because sometimes maybe it's a too big topic or if it's like innovation on product or services. Um, so it's up to them. But to be honest, in the end, like when we have the recommendation, 30, 40%. Are new because we didn't, we couldn't assume along the [00:26:00] way of like half year project, of one year project that we gonna get something that is exciting maybe for them or maybe something new.

[00:26:07] Justyna Turek: But to be honest, the results can be everything. It's can be a new product, new campaign, new system, more agile. Maybe new supply chain, maybe a change in the value proposition or business model. We have like a new strategies for some companies, like, like for example, some companies, they're telling us we want a revolution.

[00:26:28] Justyna Turek: Meaning how can we, for example, we have this, um, you know, we have this techno technology park, we have this technology. Can we design something new? Can we produce maybe something that we are not producing anymore because we don't wanna use this, um, material or resources anymore? So to be honest, I will say this famous word, it depends.

[00:26:51] Justyna Turek: It really depends, uh, what, what is the scope that they want to start with on sustainability. But what we are [00:27:00] learning, we are teaching them. To do the step by step, not to try to change whole organization and the production and the value and the what they're doing and delivering, because it's almost impossible to just start small.

[00:27:14] Justyna Turek: So then employees of the company, they can see like, oh, we did it. We actually succeed with this sustainable element and, you know, make it then, you know, spread it more on the other. Um, Other departments or other elements, and this is really crucial because. Employees, there are the driving forces of sustainability.

[00:27:35] Justyna Turek: Organization culture is driving forces for, for sustainability. That's like my experience so far. Well,

[00:27:43] Gerry McGovern: you, you're just building on that. Where do you see the voice coming from within the organization for this change? Is it coming from specific, uh, departments or they're coming from executives? I

[00:27:56] Justyna Turek: think from different sites and the different moments, I [00:28:00] think it's not happening at the same time.

[00:28:02] Justyna Turek: Because how I used to work and what I discovered that maybe start, it started five years ago with the, you know, department, you know, design department, like employees were saying like, ah, we wanna reduce waste, or maybe we don't want use this resource anymore. Then, you know, with the time this, you know, someone said this on a meeting, then someone maybe say that this is true, but you know, nothing was happened.

[00:28:25] Justyna Turek: Then after some times, you know, maybe management were saying, oh, we have a new, uh, European u European Union direct, uh, directions. We need to change something. Couple of meetings and then done. Um, this is right quite often what was happening when I was talking with the company, meaning that they had some kind of first race of, of light, let's put it that way before, but they didn't put it all together.

[00:28:50] Justyna Turek: So that's why it's, it's really hard to say when and from which side. Sorry, I dunno if you heard that noise. Um, so it's really [00:29:00] hard. It's really hard to say. From which, which side does it come from? I think from, from every department. Different iden, uh, intensivity and different timing. Um, but I would say from my experience quite a lot, uh, with people that actually doing and producing things at the company because they're the closest.

[00:29:25] Justyna Turek: They can touch, they can see, uh, especially if it's product, the product that is not sustainable or the, the people who are taking care of the customers, uh, they can, you know, close, they, they're talking with customers and they hear like, oh, this is not working in your service. This is when you gonna do this service more sustainable.

[00:29:45] Justyna Turek: So they're getting this feedback and they feel like, oh, we don't like it, for example. Um, so I would say, Yeah, that would be my, my impact on that. Alright.

[00:29:56] Gerry McGovern: And we've got one last question, just time for one more. [00:30:00] Um, so. For designers who are out there listening at the moment, who may be in, say, user experience roles or service design roles, and they're looking to get more into this space of sustainability, what advice do you give to them, uh, in, in order to be able to prepare themselves and align themselves to those opportunities in the future?

[00:30:21] Gerry McGovern: Because I, I can't see this subject and domain expertise. Going away. If anything, it's going to exponentially grow over the next number of years, especially as regulation increases from the governments. Yeah. To hit those mandates. How can designers better prepare themselves for those opportunities as they arise?

[00:30:39] Justyna Turek: Hmm. That's um, a good question because I got that question a lot when I'm coaching. Uh, from people that they want to start their journey on sustainability. Obviously there's so many curses, there's so many knowledge and it's always good to, you know, to get, get some classes to start doing. [00:31:00] But you know that I said before that I'm all about practice.

[00:31:04] Justyna Turek: The best way is to find. If someone is already doing something on this topic in your, uh, in your local environment, um, it can be organization, it can be a nonprofit, it can be a design studio, whatever. Or production even. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And just go there and, and, and ask if you can, if you can help or if you can do something, if you can be, you know, like a support, because that's the best way.

[00:31:30] Justyna Turek: To start with sustainability is actually do it. You don't need to get all the courses, you don't need to get, you know, a PhD. I mean, it would be lovely to have a PhD, obviously, but before that, you can just really jump immediately to practice and be surrounded maybe with people who are already working with sustainability and, and be close to them.

[00:31:50] Justyna Turek: The best way is just really explore, uh, this fear. And be active and observe sustainability in a practice. Um, [00:32:00] I know I'm, I'm, I'm keep saying this, the same two words all the time, but that's how I get to sustainability. That's how I get to design. Mm-hmm. I just went to the right people, right places, right time, and I was just there helping, working, uh, doing things.

[00:32:15] Justyna Turek: And then I get my own approach to, to this topic.

[00:32:19] Gerry McGovern: Okay, excellent. So if people wanna reach out to you and get in touch and learn more about next agents and change pilots and stuff, I'll put links to those in the show notes. Um, but how, what's your preferred method for people to get in touch with you?

[00:32:35] Justyna Turek: The best way is LinkedIn, to be honest.

[00:32:38] Justyna Turek: Yeah.

[00:32:39] Gerry McGovern: Everyone says LinkedIn. Yes. Yes. I mean, for people to say MySpace.

[00:32:44] Justyna Turek: Ah, back in the days, I still remember this platform. Yeah. Uh, the best way is LinkedIn because if it's connected to to work. Uh, to my creative part, then this is the best way. How, how we can, you know, connect and we can [00:33:00] exchange the ideas and, you know, collaborate.

[00:33:02] Justyna Turek: Because I'm all about collaboration because sustainability is based on, on collaboration and ecosystem. So, um, how can I work? That's also another, uh, another, uh, proposal for designers, how to work with sustainability. It's all about networking, exchange, collaboration, so, That's a good start.

[00:33:24] Gerry McGovern: Awesome. Listen, thank you so much for your time.

[00:33:27] Gerry McGovern: It was absolutely brilliant to speak with you. I, I know you've taken time outta your day.

[00:33:31] Justyna Turek: Thank you. The same. It was really, uh, wonderful to talk with you, Gary, today.

[00:33:39] Gerry McGovern: There you go folks. I hope you enjoyed that episode and if you enjoyed it and want to listen to more, why not visit? This is hate cd.com where you can learn more about what we are up to and also explore our courses while through there. Thanks again for listening.

John Carter
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